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September 18, 2014

Campbell's *The Meeting with the Mentor* Stage of the Monomyth, as Explained by Christopher Vogler


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Class,

In the comment box below,

. . . the note-taker/scribe from each group should retype the question your group discussed today in class and provide an answer with quotations from the text to support your answers. You MUST put the page number (or, paragraph number if there are no page numbers) in parentheses after any quotation used.

Enter your work on this text as prescribed in class. For example:

Remember: I have to "approve" all comments so you won't see it immediately after posting. After hitting submit, you should see a screen that confirms this.

We are beginning to use some concepts in our discussions that you may or may have had practice using before. I want to be sure that you have a clear understanding of the words we use in class (no more blank stares!) so be sure you are looking up words you don't feel you yet "own" (means, making it a part of your personal vocabulary) by utilizing your dictionaries to the fullest.

Dr. Hobbs

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To see other English-Blog entries on the subject of Literature, please click HERE.

Posted by lhobbs at September 18, 2014 04:25 PM

Readers' Comments:

DO OVER
Kyle VanBuren and Bronwen Burke
Dr. Burgsbee Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL
17 October 2014

Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, (a.) who is/was “Chiron” and (b.) why is he labeled a “Prototype”?

Text source: “The Writers Journey,” By Christopher Vogler

Answer: A Chiron is a centaur that mentored Greek heroes, a prototype for all Wise Old Men and Women (Vogler 119). Vogler writes, “A strange mix of man and horse, Chiron was foster-father and trainer to a whole army…” (Vogler 119).

Posted by: Kyle VanBurn at October 17, 2014 11:07 AM

Jonah Robertson and Peter Bellini
Dr. Burgsbee L. Hobbs
ENG 220CL CA02
October 17 2014

Question:
In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say the “Mentor-hero relationship can [sometimes] take a tragic or deadly turn” (see the section on “Mentor-Hero Conflicts”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.
Answer: The “Meeting with the Mentor” can sometimes take a “tragic or deadly turn” when the hero is “ungrateful or violence prone” (Vogler 121). Siddhartha is continuously ungrateful towards his mentors throughout almost every experience he has. He defies his dad outright at the beginning of the tale, by insisting on leaving their home. Later he defies the Samana leader by proving that his magic is stronger than the old man’s. Once Siddhartha reached the Buddha he defied him by saying he didn’t want to be taught anymore (Hesse 20).
In other stories outside of class, Anakin Skywalker is a perfect example of a defiant hero who turns on their mentor. He is rebellious towards Obi Wan through the second and third movies, and in the third one he even tries to kill his mentor in a fit of rage.

Posted by: Jonah Robertson at October 17, 2014 11:57 AM

Sharrad Forbes, Olivia Ago-Stallworth
Dr. B. Lee. Hobbs
ENG 220CL: Journeys in Narrative (CA02)
17 October 2014

Question:
In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say that audiences “don’t mind being misled about a Mentor” (see the section on “Misdirection”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer:
Many times the “mask of the Mentor can be used to trick a hero” (Vogler 121), leading the Hero into a life of evil or crime. Audiences do not mind being misled by this because “real life is full of surprises” (Vogler 121), and rarely is it that people are exactly as we first thought.
For instance, in 101 Dalmatians the character of Cruella de Vil is a kind mentor to Anita, caring for her, paying for her unique clothing designs, and encouraging her. However, once Anita was married, and her Dalmatians had puppies, Cruella wanted to kidnap the pups, kill them, and make a fur coat for herself.
Vogler states that you can “make the audience think they see a conventional, kindly, helpful Mentor” (Vogler 121). Only revealing the characters true nature to the surprise and expectations of the audience.

Posted by: Sharrad Forbes at October 17, 2014 11:58 AM

Claudia Pierre
Bryce Veller
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL On The Proverbial Road: Journeys of Transformation in Narrative CA02
17 October 2014


QUESTION:
According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the
Mentor” stage, (a.) who is/was “Chiron” and (b.) why is he labeled a
“Prototype”? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support
the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

ANSWER:
Chiron was known as a strange mix of man and horse, many of Greek heroes were mentored by him, “a prototype for all Wise Old Men and Women. Chiron was also a trainer and foster father to the entire army of Greek heroes. For example, Peleus, Hercules, and Acateon just to name a few. Chiron was labeled a “Prototype” because he mentored most to all of the Greek heroes, a mentor figure for most to all heroes.

“As a mentor, Chiron led his heroes-in-training through the thresholds of manhood by patiently teaching them the skills of archery, poetry, surgery, and so on.” (Vogler, 119)

Posted by: Claudia Pierre at October 17, 2014 12:00 PM

Ashlee English & Leroy Pianka
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL On the Proverbial Road: Journeys of Transformation in Narrative CA02
17 October 2014
QUESTION:
9. In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say that sometimes “a Mentor turns villain or betrays the hero” (see the section on “Mentor-Hero Conflicts”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.
ANSWER:
Christopher Vogler states that mentors can’t be trusted, “these stories teach us that all Mentors are not to be trusted, and that it’s healthy to question a Mentor’s motives. It’s one way to distinguish good from bad advice” (Vogler 122). In the movie “School of Rock” the mentor character Dewy Finn played by Jack Black impersonates his friend Ned Schneebly and teaches a group of students to be rock musicians, where they enter a rock competition. However, Finn does this to re-establish his name in the rock and roll world rather than for the betterment of the children. Finn illustrates why Vogler says it is important to question the motives of a Mentor if they are to help the hero or help himself in the end.

Posted by: Ashlee English at October 17, 2014 12:10 PM

Joanna Ozog, Jake Gates
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys of Transformation in Narrative CA02
17 October 2014

Group 3 Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, how do mentor meetings often “look” In “Folklore and Myth”? Explain your response.

Answer: The mentor usually appears as a witch, wizard, witchdoctor, spirit, or god in folklore. These types of characters have a connection with the supernatural world. These mentors are almost always old, and in some cases, ancient. They usually “bestow gifts [upon the hero] and guide them on the journey” (118).

Posted by: Joanna Ozog at October 17, 2014 12:16 PM

Matt Basin
Anet Milan
Eng 220 CL On the Proverbial Road: Journeys of Transformation in Narrative CA02
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
17 Oct 2014

Question Number 11:
What does Christopher Volger mean by the “Mentor-Driven Stories” concept he discusses in his chapter on the “Meeting with the mentor” stage? Has this occurred in anything we have read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your reponse. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words?
Answer:
The concept “mentor driven stories” as discussed by Christopher Vogler, suggest that once in a while an entire story is built around the mentor. The book Siddhartha has an instance that is relevant to this certain situation. For example, when Siddhartha becomes the fairy man and the mentee became the mentor.

Posted by: Matthew Basin at October 19, 2014 04:03 PM

Jazlynn Rosario and Caitlin Christian
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journey in Narrative CA02
19 October 2014


Question #13:
In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say that the “Mentor’s brief appearance is critical to get the story past the blockades of doubt and fear” (see the section on “Critical Influence”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs?

Answer:
The mentor's brief appearance is critical because, the mentor appears 2 or 3 times in a story. Mentors are also very "useful to storytellers," and they "reflect the reality that we all have to learn the lessons of life from someone or something" (Christopher Vogler 123). In a Christmas Carol, the three ghosts guide Scrooge in teaching him a lesson and how to become a better person. In Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Hagrid rescues Harry Potter, tells him he is a wizard, teaches him, brings him to the extraordinary world, and gives him the tools he needs.

Posted by: Jazlynn Rosario at October 19, 2014 10:20 PM

James Sierra, Tommy Meseroll, Rebeccah Braun
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL - ON THE PROVERBIAL ROAD: JOURNEYS OF TRANSFORMATION IN NARRATIVE CA02
17 October 2014

Question 1:
According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage,
(a.) What did Vladimir Propp call this character, and
(b.) Why? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.
Answer:
Christopher Vogler referred to the mentor as the Donor or provider. As he states, “its precise function is to supply the hero with something needed on the journey (Vogler 117).” For example, he would provide training, advise, guidance, or gifts to help the hero on his mission.

Posted by: James Sierra at October 19, 2014 11:36 PM

Blake Bromen & Josh Natonio
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
ENG-220CL On the Proverbial Road: Journeys of Transformation in Narratives CA01
17 October 14

Question #9:
In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say that sometimes “a Mentor turns villain or betrays the hero” (see the section on “Mentor-Hero Conflicts”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words

Answer:
Conflict between the mentor and hero can arise if the hero is ungrateful or violence-prone; it can also take place if the hero has a tendency to do harm to his mentors. (Vogler 121). This has not happened in anything we have read in class so far. Hercules and Harry Potter are both good examples of how a mentor turns to a villain.

Posted by: Blake Bromen & Josh Natonio at October 20, 2014 07:30 AM

Ashley Gross and Zachary Sabo
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys in Narrative CA01
20 October 2014

Question #3- Meeting the Mentor:
According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, how do mentor meetings often “look” in “Folklore and Myth”?

Answer:
Vogler gives the examples of animals helping little girls in Russian fairytales, the seven dwarves who help Snow White, and Puss-in-Boots who helps his poor master. "All are projections of the powerful archetype of the mentor, helping and guiding the hero" (Vogler 118).

Posted by: Ashley Gross at October 20, 2014 08:14 AM

Summer Taylor, Kendra Hinton
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL - On The Proverbial Road: Journeys Of Transformation In Narrative CA01
20 October 2014

Question: In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say “Mentors sometimes disappoint the heroes” (see the section on “Mentor-Hero Conflicts”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer: Vogler explains that one of the hero-mentor conflicts that can arise can be the mentor disappointing the hero. This disappointment can mean various things such as: the mentor not living up to the heroes expectations, the mentor turning out not how he portrayed himself/herself, or the mentors wisdom and lessons failing the hero. One example of a mentor disappointing a hero is in Siddhartha after he is done talking to the Buddha. "I saw a man, Siddhartha thought, a single man, before whom I would have to lower my glance. I do not want to lower my glance before any other, not before any other. No teachings will entice me any more, since this man's teachings have not enticed me" (Hesse, 12). An example of a mentor disappointing a hero that I have watched/read on my own time is Lord of The Rings; Sauramon and Gandalf. Sauramon was Gandalf's mentor and teacher and he disappointed Gandalf when he chose to turn to the evil side because he thought it would be the winning side. Gandalf remained true to the good side even though his mentor turned evil.

References: Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. N.p.: n.p., n.d. 36. Kindle.

Posted by: Summer Taylor Kendra Hinton at October 20, 2014 09:12 AM

DO OVER

Nuri Salahuddin and Maria Aguilera
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys of Transformation in Narrative
19 October 2014

Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage (a.) who is/was “Mentor Himself” and (b.) what is his/her backstory? (c.) Why is this story important to an understanding of the archetype? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support your answer.

Answer: “The term Mentor comes from the character of that name in the Odyssey.” (Vogler 119). Mentor was the loyal friend of the Odysseus, entrusted with raising his son, Telemachus, while Odysseus made his long way back from the Trojan war.” (Vogler 119). This back story is important because the character, Mentor, in the Odyssey represents exactly what a mentor is, hence why the archeatype is named after him.

Posted by: Maria Aguilera at October 20, 2014 12:02 PM

T.J. Pagliaro, Rich Bennet
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys in Narrative CA02
4 March 2015
Group Question

Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, (a.) what did Vladimir Propp call this character, and (b.) why? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer: Vladimir Propp calls the character the “donor, or “provider”. Its precise function is to supply the hero with something needed on the journey. Throughout the stage of “Meeting the Mentor”, the Hero advances with the provisions, knowledge, and self-assurance needed to overcome anxiety and begin the journey. In Dickens’ novel “A Christmas Carol”, we see that Marley’s ghost acts as the Mentor to Scrooge because as Dickens writes, “I am here to-night to warn you, that you have yet a chance and hope of escaping my fate. A chance and hope of my procuring, Ebenezer” (Dickens 15). This passage also refers to the “Meeting with the Mentor” because Marley challenges Scrooge’s morals he lives by and then puts him to the test by warning him about the Three Spirits coming to haunt him.

Posted by: Timothy Pagliaro at March 4, 2015 02:21 PM

Matthew Lemonis, Joe Marrah
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220 Journeys in the Narrative
4 March 4, 2015

Question: What does Christopher Vogler mean by the “Mentor as Evolved Hero” concept he discusses in his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer: When the hero of the story has been mentored so much himself he earns the ability to mentor others. The end state for most characters we have come across novels we have read strive to become a mentor themselves. They have been down the road of what the mentee is going through, and offers guidance. An example from Siddharth, “You will learn it, but not from me, the river has taught me to listen you will learn from it to, the river knows everything one can learn everything from it.” Where the Ferryman teaches Siddhartha to learn from the river, which the ferryman had success with himself and his personal enlighten.

Posted by: Matthew Lemonis, Joe Marrah at March 4, 2015 02:22 PM

Kelsey Williams & Jeffrey Wingfield
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys of Transformation in Narratives CA01
4 March 2015

6. Question What does Christopher Vogler mean by the “Mentor Clichés” concept he discusses in his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage? How does it sometimes work/occur in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer: Vogler refers the generic mentor. This stereotype includes the wise, old man because“it's easy to fall into clichés and stereotypes — kindly fairy godmothers and white-bearded wizards in tall Merlin hats” (Vogler 120). In an effort to avoid generic writing, subtracting the mentor archetype in a character and implanting it within the hero can add an element of change. Works such as Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and Harry Potter represent the generic Wizard Mentor (sorry Gandalf, Obi-Wan, and Dumbledore). Whereas works such as the Painted Bird, Kosinski’s young boy lacks an apparent mentor character. Instead, he learns how to survive on his own through observation and trial-and-error.

Posted by: Kelsey Williams & Jeffrey Wingfield at March 4, 2015 03:08 PM

Marie Destin & Jasmine Weaver
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 220 On the Proverbial Road: Journeys in Narrative CA01 3 March 2015

Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, how do mentor meetings often “look” in “Folklore and Myth”? Explain your response.

Answer: In the text of Vogler he describes the “Meeting of the Mentor” as bestowing gifts and guides for the hero. He also says “Some heroes are raised and trained by magical beings that are somewhere between gods and men such as centaurs. (Vogler 119)” For example, In Kung Fu Panda, the panda isn't necessarily raised by his mentor but he does live with him for a while so he can get trained for what it is he needs to do. Their meetings normally consist of them being in a secluded area where they can focus on becoming one with themselves and then they are trained to fight.

Posted by: Jasmine Weaver at March 4, 2015 03:10 PM

Bobbi Ausmus and Chrissy Castro
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220
4 March 2015

Question:7

Answer: Vogler states that there can be a sense of misdirection of the mentor and that’s okay. He goes on by saying, “Real life is full of surprises about people who turn out to be nothing like we first thought” (Vogler 121). In the Lion King, Scar just seems like a misunderstood Uncle. He gives Simba advice like an uncle should. However, he completely turns into the villain and kills his brother. Then he advises Simba to run away and never return, so Simba does. He then tells his hyena henchmen to kill him. It was a quick flip of the mentor character.


Posted by: Bobbi Ausmus & Chrissy Castro at March 4, 2015 03:19 PM

Maggie Izquierdo and Wyatt Burtschell
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys in Narrative CA02
6 March 2015

Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the
Mentor” stage, (a.) who is/was “Mentor Himself” and (b.) what is
his/her backstory? (c.) Why is this story important to an understanding
of the archetype? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to
support the part of your answer that appears in your own words.

Answer: Vogler identifies the Mentor Himself to be Athena, the goddess of wisdom in Greek mythology. She disguises herself many times in the story The Odyssey. She does this to help Odysseus' son, Telemachus, the Hero arhcetype in this story, on his journey. Every time Telemachus seems to be stuck in a situation, Athena disguises herself and unsticks it. She has disguised herself first as Mentes, the traveling warrior. As Mentes, she gives the Call to Adventure to Telemachus to stand up to suitors and find his father. Then she disguises herself as Mentor, Telemacus' teacher. She drums up the courage in him and helps him find a ship and crew. To know this story is so important because this is how the Mentor archetype is created. The term "Mentor" comes from this story. All mentors in different stories after will look up to the example she gave of how a mentor aids and guides the hero. (Vogler 119-120).

Posted by: Maggie Izquierdo at March 6, 2015 10:42 AM

Tyler Sedam, Celina Tahsini, and Duane Daye
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys in Narrative CA02
6 March 2015
Question: According to Christopher Vogler, in his discussion of the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, who is/was “Chiron” and why is he labeled a “Prototype”?

Answer: Christopher Vogler defines the Mentor as a figure whose functions include “protecting, guiding, teaching, testing, training, and providing magical gifts” (Vogler 117). Chiron is a major character of ancient Greek legend who trained numerous now-famous heroes such as Hercules and Achilles. Vogler defines Chiron as a prototype of the modern Mentor archetype for a specific reason. Vogler’s two main characteristics of what makes a figure a mentor is their ability to teach the hero in numerous ways and to provide a magical gift to the hero to aid them on their journey. While Chiron is a legendary trainer of many Greek heroes, he never did provide them with a magical gift for their journey. Therefore, even though Chiron has many of the characteristics that would define him as a mentor, he does not give a magical gift to any of the heroes he trains, and so is only a prototype of the mentor archetype, according to Vogler.

Posted by: Tyler Sedam, Celina Tahsini, and Duane Daye at March 6, 2015 12:48 PM

(redo)
Bryan Hess and William Pereira
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 220CL Journeys In Narrative CA02
6 March 2015

Question: In his chapter on the “Meeting with the Mentor” stage, why does Christopher Vogler say that the “Mentor’s brief appearance is critical to get the story past the blockades of doubt and fear” (see the section on “Critical Influence”)? Has this occurred in anything we’ve read, as a class, thus far? What works have YOU read (or seen, as a film) where this occurs? Explain your response. Use quoted passages from the text to support the part of your answer that appears in your own word

Answer: Vogler states that the Mentor’s brief appearance is critical because their, “function is to get the story unstuck by giving aid, advice, or magical equipment.” (Vogler, 123). We see that this is true in A Christmas Carol as Scrooge would not have changed his ways were it not for the Spirits granting him the ability to see into the past, present, and future. We also saw this in Star Wars as Obi-Wan Kenobi’s lessons on the force later allowed Luke Skywalker to destroy the death star. Both examples involve a Mentor character giving magical gifts to the Hero so that the Hero may later overcome a large obstacle in the story.

Posted by: Bryan Hess (redo) at March 6, 2015 01:33 PM

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