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September 09, 2013

The First Agon of Plato's _Symposium_: Phaedrus and Pausanias

Image Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece#mediaviewer/File:Kiss_Briseis_Painter_Louvre_G278_full.jpg

Caption: Attic kylix depicting a lover and a beloved kissing (5th century BC)

Plato (c. 348–47 B.C.E.) Symposium. 360 B.C.E. Greek. Philosophic text.


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Posted by lhobbs at September 9, 2013 10:13 AM

Readers' Comments:

SP: Monica Guirguis
SC: Erica Esqueda
RES: Rache Robinson, Lauren Rhodes
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
13 September 2013

6. Much has been made of a “physical attraction” type of love and a “soul-mate” type of love. This does not have to be “black-and-white.” There can be varying degrees and the love, for our purposes, does not have to be sexual to qualify. In Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, which type best fits the relationship between Kamala and Siddhartha? Discuss it on both sides: Siddhartha’s side and Kamala’s side.

The relationship between Siddhartha and Kamala can be classified as both physical attraction and the soul-mate type of love, based on the perspective it is looked at. From Siddhartha's point of view, the physical attraction to Kamala is very strong because he compliments her on her physical attributes rather than her personality. Siddhartha says to Kamala, "I have come to tell you this and to thank you because you are so beautiful. And if this does not displease you, Kamala, I would like to ask you to be my friend and teacher" (Hesse 53). This give us better insight into the reason why his attraction is physical, and not as a soul-mate. Kamala, on the other hand, is attracted to Siddhartha as a soul-mate. Kamala is at first concerned about Siddhartha's physical attributes, "No, he is not yet good enough. He must have clothes, and shoes, fine shoes, and plenty of money in his purse and presents for Kamala" (Hesse 54). As Kamala got to know Siddhartha, her affection turned into a deeper attraction, seeing them as soul-mates, "You are the best lover that I have had. You are stronger than others, more supple, more willing. You have learned my art well, Siddhartha. Some day, when I am older, I will have a child by you" (Hesse 73).

Posted by: Erica Esqueda at September 13, 2013 12:20 PM

Erica Bodden, Camila Pizon, Jasmine Charlton, Diana Shoemaker
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
14 September 2013


Question: In Plato’s Symposium what is the primary claim of Aristophanes? What is the interesting about it?

Answer: Aristophanes antithesis to Eryximachus’s theory about love comes from a Greek Myth. The human race was once a double being; meaning that we had two parts of a whole to create one person. The people were twice as fast, and twice as strong. The fact that humans were so strong worried the Gods. Zeus acted hastily in order to solve this problem by slitting us in two, “Let us cut them in two, he said; then they will only have half their strength and we shall have twice as many sacrifices”(Jowett 71). Without our other half, there is this sense of incompleteness. “The two halves went about looking for one another, and were ready to die of hunger in one another’s arm “(Jowett 73).Due to this simple notion of being incomplete can justify the reason why people spend their lives looking for their soul mate, Without that other “ half “ we fill lost or, like we are missing a piece of ourselves.

Posted by: Erica Bodden at September 14, 2013 01:01 AM

Destiny Hubbard
Desiree Jaramillo
Kelly Scott
Lindsey Thiomony
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
13 September 2013

Question: In Plato’s Symposium, what is the primary claim of Pausanias? What is interesting about it?

Answer: Pausanias’ claim is that there are two different types of love—the commonly and the heavenly. He ties off of Phaedrus who spoke about love of the body and love of the soul and evil is the vulgar lover to the body. The common love is seen to Pausanias as immature like the son Eros, whereas the heavenly love is more committed and mature like the mother Aphrodite. He specifies that love that is kept in secret is not honorable “Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise” (pg 7). He also mentions that “Doing evil is ok if it’s in the name on true love because the gods will forgive the transgressions” (pg 8).

Posted by: Destiny Hubbard, Desiree Jaramillo, Kelly Scott, and Lindsey Thiomony at September 14, 2013 11:25 AM

Jordan, Hector, and McKenzie
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
13 September 2013

Question: In Plato’s Symposium, what is the primary claim of Phaedrus? What is interesting about it?

Answer: Phaedrus states that there are two roles when it comes to love. There is the loved, and there is the beloved. Phaedrus says, “And greatly as the gods honour the virtue of love, still the return of love on the part of the beloved to the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them, for the lover is more divine; because he is inspired by God” (Plato 6). The person who is giving the love is considered more valuable because he considered godlike, as a god can give his love unconditionally if he so chooses.

Posted by: Jordan, McKenzie, and Hector at September 15, 2013 03:00 PM

Morgan, Alison, Emily, and Anastasia
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire
16 September 2013

Question: What is the primary claim of Eryximachus? What is interesting about it?
Answer: Eryximachus suggests that good love promotes moderation and orderliness. He views love as a biochemical balance not restricted solely to human interaction but also present in medicinal forms, music, and other nonhuman figures. Eryximachus explains that medicine most specifically embodies characteristics of love because its’ components know how to properly satisfy the desires of the body and treat it accordingly. His perspective is especially interesting because he speaks from a doctor’s perspective about chemical forms of love.

Posted by: Morgan, Alison, Emily, and Anastasia at September 15, 2013 08:56 PM

Connor Schaefer, Regina Green, Deirdre Rowan, Adrian
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL- CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
16 September 2013

Question: 6. Much has been made of a “physical attraction” type of love and a “soul-mate” type of love. This does not have to be “black-and-white.” There can be varying degrees and the love, for our purposes, does not have to be sexual to qualify. In Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, which type best fits the relationship between Kamala and Siddhartha? Discuss it on both sides: Siddhartha’s side and Kamala’s side.

Answer: Kamala and Siddhartha’s relationship is all about physical attraction. Even though Siddhartha and Kamala have a physical attraction to one another, Siddhartha has more feelings towards Kamala. The narrator describes Siddhartha’s emotions by stating, “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 51). This shows how Siddhartha thinks their relationship is more than physical attraction. He would not have feelings in his heart towards her if he just wanted the sex. Kamala cares about Siddhartha, but in a different way. She finds him very attracted, but does not show much love towards him. When Siddhartha left Kamala, she shows a little emotion. She locks herself in her home. Siddhartha’s dismissal did effect Kamala. It hurt her a little, but she still did not love Siddhartha as he loved her. Siddhartha and Kamala’s relationship is about physical attraction, but Siddhartha has more emotions towards Kamala besides physical attraction.

Posted by: Connor Schaefer at September 15, 2013 10:20 PM

Group #4
Dr. Hobbs
ENG210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
14 September 2013
Question #4: In Plato’s Symposium, what is the primary claim of Aristophanes? What is interesting about it?
Answer: Aristophones’ claim is that everyone was once connected to another person before they were on earth. He believed that people, before being separated, had four arms and legs, but only one head. Zeus then split them in half to prevent only them from becoming more powerful than the gods. He also did this to make more people, which means more people will be praying to the gods thus giving them more power. Something interesting about this claim by Aristophones is that we spend our whole life looking for the other half that was separated by Zeus. Also, Aristophones states there are three different races before separation. There is one race that is made up of two male genitalia, another made of two women genitalia, and the last is a race made up of both forms of genitalia. This claim gives explanations to people as to why some are attracted to the same sex.

Posted by: Christopher Holtzhower at September 16, 2013 09:45 AM

Jasmine C, Dana D, Jules D, and Kerriann S
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL: Love and Desire in Literature CA01
16 September 2013
Group/Question 6: Much has been made of a “physical attraction” type of love and a “soul-mate” type of love. This does not have to be “black-and-white.” There can be varying degrees and the love, for our purposes, does not have to be sexual to qualify. In Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, which type best fits the relationship between Govinda and Siddhartha? Discuss it on both sides: Siddhartha’s side and Govinda’s side.
Answer: The love Govinda and Siddhartha have for each other is continuously evolving throughout the novel. Siddhartha has more of a physical attraction to Govinda, until he has the “sex dream” that involves Govinda, which then turns into a soul-mate type of love. Govinda has more of a soul mate love towards Siddhartha. He abandons the life of a Brahman, to take on the life of a Samana with Siddhartha. When Govinda states, “now his fate is beginning to sprout, and with his, my own” (Hesse 9), you can see the infatuation Govinda has for Siddhartha. He cannot live his life without Siddhartha. However, when Siddhartha decides to not join Gotama, and Govinda stays, his love shifts from being a soul-mate to physical attraction. While Siddhartha’s love shifts when he states, “He still loves him” (Hesse 67), in Sansara when he sees Govinda. Govinda states, “I wouldn't have recognized you this time” (Hesse 98) because Siddhartha has changed. At no point in this novel, neither Siddhartha nor Govinda have the same level of love for one another. It is always one loves more than the other.

Posted by: Jasmine Collins at September 16, 2013 10:20 AM

Connor Schaefer, Regina Green, Deirdre Rowan, Adrian Abdulaziz Alsaif
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL- CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
16 September 2013

Question: 6. Much has been made of a “physical attraction” type of love and a “soul-mate” type of love. This does not have to be “black-and-white.” There can be varying degrees and the love, for our purposes, does not have to be sexual to qualify. In Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, which type best fits the relationship between Kamala and Siddhartha? Discuss it on both sides: Siddhartha’s side and Kamala’s side.

Answer: Kamala and Siddhartha’s relationship is all about physical attraction. Even though Siddhartha and Kamala have a physical attraction to one another, Siddhartha has more feelings towards Kamala. The narrator describes Siddhartha’s emotions by stating, “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 51). This shows how Siddhartha thinks their relationship is more than physical attraction. He would not have feelings in his heart towards her if he just wanted the sex. Kamala cares about Siddhartha, but in a different way. She finds him very attracted, but does not show much love towards him. When Siddhartha left Kamala, she shows a little emotion. She locks herself in her home. Siddhartha’s dismissal did effect Kamala. It hurt her a little, but she still did not love Siddhartha as he loved her. Siddhartha and Kamala’s relationship is about physical attraction, but Siddhartha has more, emotions towards Kamala besides physical attraction.

Posted by: abdulaziz alsaif at September 16, 2013 10:53 AM

Paula Pion, Vanessa Parkin, and Zarin Hamid
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02
16 September 2013

Question #1: “What is the primary claim of Phaedrus? What is interesting about it?”

Answer: Phaedrus’ primary claim is Love does not have many poems and hymns written about him, unlike the other gods. He beings by saying, “What a strange thing it is, Eryximachus, that, whereas other gods have poems and hymns made in their honour the great and glorious god, Love, has no encomiast among all the poets who are so many.” He then later explains, by people feeling love for one other or just people being able to feel love is a way of praise to Eros. What is interesting about this is as Phaedrus continues; he also splits love into two types, Lover and the beloved.

Posted by: Paula Pion at September 16, 2013 01:31 PM

Jordan Dadez
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
16 September 2013

Question: What is the good/beautiful that Kamala seeks? What is missing in her life that, if found, will make her whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Answer: The beauty that Kamala seeks is satisfaction that only she can deliver to herself. In her youth, she sought a sensual satisfaction. As she grew older, she sought a deeper and more fulfilling satisfaction. She decides to follow Gotama, and she tells Siddhartha, “One day, perhaps soon, I’ll also follow that Buddha. I’ll give him my pleasure garden for a gift and take my refuge in his teachings” (Hesse 58). This particular quality that Kamala possesses exists within Siddhartha as well. He renounces learning from a teacher or teachings and decides to find enlightenment on his own path because he seeks a higher level of fulfillment than that of his previous teachings.

Posted by: Jordan Dadez at September 16, 2013 03:25 PM

Erica Bodden
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
16 September 2013


Question: How is the topic of Agathon’s speech different from the previous speakers? In what directions does he turn the previous theses in his antithesis?

Answer: Agathon begins his speech by blatantly stating how the previous speeches failed to mention Eros personal qualities and have only focused on the benefits he has contributed to love. He slowly draws the focus towards praising Eros. According to Eros “Love is the happiest of the gods because he is the most beautiful” (Jowett,35 ). Agathon mentions all of the superficial aspects of Eros such as his sensitivity and his vitreous nature. Throughout his speech, it becomes evident that his love for Eros is a reflection of himself. Rather than focusing on Love Agathon speech is geared in the opposite direction discussing mainly desire.

Posted by: Erica Bodden at September 16, 2013 11:28 PM

Diana Shoemaker
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
18 September 2013

Question: What is the good/beautiful that Govinda seeks? What is missing in his life that, if found, will make him whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Answer: The most beautiful thing that Govinda seeks is enlightenment. In order for Govinda to be whole, he needs to be knowledgeable of enlightenment and understand the teachings from someone who is. Siddhartha stays and passes on the knowledge that he has to Govinda. One thing that Govinda must do in order to be enlightened and whole is to obtain his own wisdom. One is not able to be enlightened through only teachings. Siddhartha talks with Govinda about how he should be seeking his goal. Siddhartha says to Govinda, “it happens quite easily that he only sees the thing that he is seeking; that he is unable to find anything, unable to absorb anything, because he is only thinking of the thing he is seeking” (Hesse 113). This is how Siddhartha explains to Govinda that he must learn from his own experiences, and achieve his own experience in order to reach his ultimate goal and to be whole.

Posted by: Diana Shoemaker at September 17, 2013 11:17 AM

Kelly Scott
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
16 September 2013

Question: 3. What is the good/beautiful that Siddhartha seeks? What is missing in his life
that, if found, will make him whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained
in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared
to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Answer: New Directions Publishing Corporation and Bantam Books publish the edition of Siddhartha that was used for this response. The good/beautiful that Siddhartha seeks is himself. He feels as though his life has been incomplete because he has not truly found his own, true self, whatever that may be. He is searching for his soul, for what makes him truly happy, for what will cure him of his curiosity. Siddhartha had a great respect for verses from the holy books, such as, “Your soul is the whole world” (Hesse, 7). Siddhartha also ventured and strived to find love. In the very first chapter of the book it is said, “He had begun to feel that the love of his father and mother, and also the love of his friend Govinda, would not always make him happy, give him peace, satisfy and suffice him” (Hesse, 5). Although he was grateful for these relationships, he felt that he needed more. One quote from the book truly sums up everything it is that Siddhartha was searching for, “He had begun to suspect that his worthy father and his other teachers, the wise Brahmins, had already passed on to him the bulk and best of their wisdom, that they had already poured the sum total of their knowledge into his waiting vessel; and the vessel was not full, his intellect was not satisfied, his soul was not at peace, his heart was not still” (Hesse, 5). Siddhartha was empty. He would take with him what he had learned from everyone, but he knew there was more that he was missing that could potentially make him whole and repaired. In the final chapter, Siddhartha states, “You know, my friend, that even as a young man, when we lived with the ascetics in the forest, I came to distrust doctrines and teachers and to turn my back on them. I am still of the same turn of mind, although I have, since that time, had many teachers. A beautiful courtesan was my teacher for a long time, and a rich merchant and a dice player. On one occasion, one of Buddha’s wandering monks was my teacher. He halted in his pilgrimage to sit beside me when I fell asleep in the forest. I also learned something from him and I am grateful for him, very grateful. But most of all, I have learned from this river and from my predecessor, Vasudeva. He was a simple man; he was not a thinker, but he realized the essential as well as Gotama. He was a holy man, a saint” (Hesse, 142).

Posted by: Kelly Scott at September 17, 2013 11:42 AM

Lindsey Thilmony
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
17 September 2013

Question: As fellow-seekers, in Siddhartha’s student-teacher relationship with the Samanas, do Siddhartha and the Samanas symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When the Samanas and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why?

Answer: In the chapter, With the Samanas, Siddhartha is still unsatisfied with where he is at in his life. Even though he is living a life of poverty, fasting, meditating, and following the Samana rules he still feels scattered and frustrated. The Samanas do not complete Siddhartha, and Siddhartha does not complete the Samanas. If they did complete each other, then Siddhartha would not feel the frustration he has when he spoke to Govinda about his troubles. Siddhartha says, “I can’t help but feel that it is not like this, my friend. What I’ve learned being among the Samanas, up to this day, this, oh Govinda, I could have learned more quickly and by simpler means” (Hesse 15).

Posted by: Lindsey Thilmony at September 17, 2013 03:38 PM

Jasmine Collins
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL: Love and Desire in Literature CA01
17 September 2013
Group/Question 4: As a couple in a romantic relationship, do Kamala and Siddhartha symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Kamala and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.
Answer: I believe that Kamala and Siddhartha complete one another. Siddhartha tells Kamala, “You are like me, you are different from most people” (Hesse 53). When you are in love, typically the person that you are in love with, has qualities that you have. Your soul mate, a person that completes you, will have your qualities and more and that is why Siddhartha told Kamala this. When Siddhartha comes to see Kamala, he is seeking to “learn how to make love” (Hesse 41). Kamala would like to have some of Siddhartha’s attributes like knowing how to read and write. Kamala desires for Siddhartha to speak his poems and kind words to her often. Something is missing, and that something that is missing is true love. Siddhartha states to Kamala, “ I am like you. You also do not love” (Hesse 54). They are complete physically and mentally, but not emotionally. They both know that they can never truly love anyone, but they do love each other in a sense.

Posted by: Jasmine Collins at September 17, 2013 05:39 PM

Jocelyne, Kylie, Salvatore & Jalisa
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
15 September 2013

Question:3.In Plato’s Symposium, what is the primary claim of Erixymachus? What is interesting about it?

Answer: The primary claim of Erixymachus is , that love is omnipresent. He explains this by saying , that every thing in nature exhibits some sort of love. "towards anything, but it is to be found in the bodies of all animals and in productions of the earth.." It is especially interesting because, love is always considered a human notion but Erixymachus does't believe that love has limits and can be experienced by plants and animals. For this reason, he believes love should be protected.
In addition to this , he thinks that there are two types of human love, healthy and unhealthy. He believes the healthy love is string enough to cure the "diseased." This could be a metaphor for emotional cure. Erixymachus claimed that love had the power to conquer all , as it can balance power "affect body and transform desires."

Posted by: Jocelyne Hilary at September 17, 2013 08:14 PM

Jalisa Lowe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
18 September 2013

Question: As friends with a close bond, do Govinda and Siddhartha symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so how? What is good/ beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Govinda and Siddhartha are together, are they whole or is there something still missing? What is it and why?

Answer: Do to knowing each other at such a very young age; Govinda and Siddhartha completed one another; they were best friends. Govinda always thought highly of Siddhartha, so when Siddhartha chose to leave the Brahmans, Govinda joined him. Govinda always admired Siddhartha’s “eye and sweet voice, he loved his walk and the perfect decency of his movements, he loved everything Siddhartha did and said and what he loved most was his spirit, his transcendent, fiery thoughts, his ardent will, his high calling” (Hesse 5). After hearing the Buddha speak, their journey together ended. They decided to go their separate ways in life, both seeking different things. Siddhartha searched for love, whereas Govinda searched for knowledge. The two seemed to find each other no matter where one would go. When Govinda and Siddhartha finally reunited for the last time, Govinda felt a rush of emotions after speaking with Siddhartha. The love he had for Siddhartha came pouring out, and Govinda “bowed; tears he knew nothing of ran down his old face; like a fire burnt the feeling of the most intimate love, the humblest veneration in his heart” (Hesse 106). Siddhartha reminded Govinda “of everything he had ever loved in his life, what had ever been valuable and holy to him in his life” (Hesse 106). Govinda and Siddhartha made one another whole again. The piece of them that was missing all along was each other.

Posted by: Jalisa Lowe at September 17, 2013 10:13 PM

Maria Benkirane 

Dr. Hobbs

ENG 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature

17 September 2013

Group 5- Question: As friends with a close bond, do Govinda and Siddhartha symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? if so, how? What is good/ beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Govinda and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? what is it and why? be prepared to explain with quoted passes from the text.

Govinda and Siddhartha do complete one another fully. Even though they were always together, and then eventually took separate paths, Siddhartha still dreamt about Govinda, meaning there is still a part of Siddhartha that was missing. Siddhartha has a dream about Govinda speaking to him with a sad face and says, "Why have you forsaken me? At this, he embraced Govinda, wrapped his arms around him, and as he was pulling him close to his chest and kissed him, it was not Govinda anymore, but a woman and a full breast, but a woman and a full breast popped out of the women's dress" (Hess 37). Siddhartha's dream means that he might feel guilty for separating with Govinda and this passage might also reflect a special kind of love that can also be considered attraction. Govinda admires Siddhartha's wisdom and has always looked up to him. Siddhartha sees Govinda as a true friend who he will always have by his side, since he went with him when Siddhartha chose to leave his home. In addition to dreaming about him, Siddhartha and Govinda have not seen each other for so many years but their path has crossed again. Govinda has heard of this really wise ferryman that turned out to be Siddhartha. Govinda tries to learn everything from Siddhartha and asks to teach him everything, but Siddhartha doesn't believe it can be taught. Siddhartha asks Govinda to bow down and kiss his forehead. As he did Govinda's thoughts went from image to image and miraculous things happened: "He saw many faces, a long sequence, a flowing river of faces, of hundreds of thousand which all came and disappeared and yet all seemed to be there simultaneously [ . . . ] Govinda bowed; tears he knew nothing of, ran down his old face; like a fire burnt the feelings of the most intimate love" (106). When Govinda and Siddhartha are together, they are whole and nothing is missing.

Posted by: Maria Benkirane at September 17, 2013 11:06 PM

Group #4
Dr. Burgsbee Hobbs
ENG210 CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
16 September 2013
Question #4: In Plato’s Symposium, what is the primary claim of Aristophanes? What is interesting about it?
Answer: Aristophones’ claim is that everyone was once connected to another person before they were on earth. He believed that people, before being separated, had four arms and legs, but only one head. Zeus then split them in half to prevent only them from becoming more powerful than the gods. He also did this to make more people, which means more people will be praying to the gods thus giving them more power. Something interesting about this claim by Aristophones is that we spend our whole life looking for the other half that was separated by Zeus. Also, Aristophones states there are three different races before separation. There is one race that is made up of two male genitalia, another made of two women genitalia, and the last is a race made up of both forms of genitalia. This claim gives explanations to people as to why some are attracted to the same sex.

Posted by: Christopher Holtzhower at September 17, 2013 11:15 PM

Deirdre Rowan
Dr. Hobbs
English 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
17 September, 2013


Question 7: As fellow-seekers, in Siddhartha’s student-teacher relationship with Gotama, the Buddha (even if only temporary), do Siddhartha and Gotama symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Gotama and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why?

Answer: Gotama and Siddhartha can symbolically complete one another: Gotama has found enlightenment and is open to new ideas and questions while Siddhartha is looking for enlightenment and does not want to follow any more teachings. When they are together, Gotama and Siddhartha are able to have insightful discussions about their beliefs without any mean-spirited words. Even in their last conversation, Siddhartha and Gotama show respect through their disagreement. When they do part ways, though, Gotama and Siddhartha seem to be whole without needing each other. Siddhartha even claims at one point that Gotama has deprived him of his time, along with his friend Govinda.

"You know how to talk cleverly, my friend. Be on your guard against too much cleverness!"
The Buddha walked away and his look and half-smile remained imprinted on Siddhartha's memory forever.
“[ . . . ] I, also, would like to look and smile, sit and walk like that [ . . . ] No teachings will attract me, since this man's teachings have not done so. The Buddha has robbed me, thought Siddhartha. He has robbed me, yet he has given me something of greater value. He has robbed me of my friend, who believed in me and now believes in him; he was my shadow and is now Gotama's shadow. But he has given to me Siddhartha, myself (35-36).”

Posted by: Deirdre Rowan at September 17, 2013 11:55 PM

Morgan Salter
Dr. Hobbs
English 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
18 September 2013

Question: What is the good/beautiful that Govinda seeks? What is missing in his life that, if found, will make him whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.
Answer: According to Aristophanes, human beings are merely halves that desire to be completed by another to achieve wholeness. This wholeness comes from another’s opposite characteristics that together with the individual will make a complete being. One example of this longing for wholeness exists in the character Govinda. Govinda seeks the good and beautiful of a free spirited being. Govinda learns by studying with teachers and performing daily practices to train his mind in effort to reach Nirvana. This rigid heart yearns for spontaneity, free thought, and experience. If he is to find this, Govinda will be made whole/repaired. This quality is contained in Siddhartha who refused to follow the crowd and stay on track with rigorous mind practices and ventured off to free his soul through self-exploration and experience. In the end of the novel, when the two reunite after years spent apart Govinda bends down to give Siddhartha a kiss goodbye he felt “a feeling of most profound love and most humble veneration burned like a fire in his heart. He bowed low, down to the ground, before the motionless, sitting figure whose smile reminded him of everything he had ever loved in his life, of everything in his life that had ever been worthy and sacred for him” (Hesse 117).

Posted by: Morgan Salter at September 18, 2013 01:25 AM

Dana DeLosa
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01: Love and Desire in Literature
18 September 2013

Question: “As friends with a close bond, do Govinda and Siddhartha symbolically complete one another (even if partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Govinda and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.”

Answer: Throughout the novel, Hesse depicts the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda as extremely intense; however, their relationship is not one in which they complete each other entirely. When the pair separates, Siddhartha only briefly feels a moment of sadness but then “emerged, more a self than before” (Hesse 33). Siddhartha does not depend on Govinda, but rather he thinks and ultimately achieves Nirvana through the help of the river and ferryman. Regardless of his autonomous nature, Siddhartha still loved Govinda and found him to be beautiful and good. When he awoke after attempting to drown himself, he looked at the monk next to him and “not observed him for long when he recognized this monk as Govinda” despite not having seen him for many years (Hesse 64). He still saw in Govinda the same “expressed zeal, faithfulness, searching timidness” that first attracted him to Govinda; it would be these same traits and his love for Govinda that would again allow him to recognize him at the end of the journey (Hesse 64). Contrastingly, Siddhartha completes Govinda; as a weaker character, Govinda is unable to support himself and constantly needs someone to guide him. He first leaves Siddhartha when he believes that Gotama can teach him the way to achieve enlightenment; after Gotama dies, Govinda becomes just as lost. He meets Siddhartha again and sees in Siddhartha the same “faith and knowledge” that attracted him to him in their adolescence (Hesse 98). Siddhartha completes Govinda by showing him the path to enlightenment via a kiss on his forehead. When the two finally reunite in the end, they become whole. Siddhartha describes the dueling of “Nirvana and Sansara as one”; they are a physical representation of this concept, Siddhartha the strong independent and Govinda the weaker and codependent existing simultaneously as one being(Hesse 104).

Posted by: Dana DeLosa at September 18, 2013 02:14 AM

Hector Rosario
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
18 September 2013

3. What is the good/beautiful that Siddhartha seeks? What is missing in his life
that, if found, will make him whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained
in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared
to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Siddhartha seeks the beauty of truly knowing himself and the wonders of love. Upon awakening from what can be described as a self-slumber, Siddhartha said "That I know nothing of myself, that Siddhartha has remained so alien and unknown to me, this comes from a cause, from a single cause: I was afraid of myself..." (Hesse, page 34). He summarizes this point in the end of his thoughts with "I myself, however, got lost in the process" (Hesse, 34).
He needs to learn in the "school in himself" to be whole again. He yearns to find who Siddhartha is; a quality that is shared with Kamala. Although she has gifts and other material objects she still opens up to Siddhartha and tells him she could see herself following Gautama later in life. She is also stricken with this lost sense of self.

Posted by: Hector Rosario at September 18, 2013 08:22 AM

Allison Knipe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
17 September 2013

Question:2. What is the good/beautiful that Kamala seeks? What is missing in her life that, if found, will make her whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained
in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who? Why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Kamala seeks love. She is a love giver, but she has never truly received love. She needs true love to become whole. She admitted that she cares about material things but I believe it is to cover up another reason why she is not whole. She says, "What do you have to offer me?" (Hesse 62) And even though Siddhartha has nothing, she still gives him a chance. On the subject of wholeness from the symposium, Kamala lacks a whole spirit and needs love from another to complete her. She needs in materialistically and passionately.

Posted by: Allison Knipe at September 18, 2013 10:21 AM

Matt Nicholson-Lewis
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
17 September 2013

Question #2: What is the good/ beautiful that Kamala seeks? What is missing in her life that, if found, will make her whole/repaired? Is this quality contained in one or more of those characters he has encountered? Who? Why?

Kamala knows that something is missing from her life. She does not feel fulfilled, and it is the “missing parts” that make her want to seek out the Gotama. She believes that if she finds this man, she will be able to fix herself, and make herself “whole” again. Govinda is similar to this in that he is waiting to find the right person to tell them how to fill the gaps in his life. The difference between them is that Govinda is proactive in searching for enlightenment, whereas, Kamala is more passive, and is going to wait until the future.

Posted by: Matt Nicholson-Lewis at September 18, 2013 11:13 AM

Paula Pion
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02
19 September 2013

Question 18: “In his lesson with his teacher, what conclusion does Socrates reach on the legitimacy of Eros’s godhood? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).”

Answer: I am using the Benjamin Jowett translation. Socrates says, “Love was neither fair nor good,” which leads him to say Eros, cannot be a god because Gods are fair and good. After Socrates’ lesson with Diotima, he concludes Eros is neither a god nor a mortal. Diotima explains to Socrates Love is a spirit who exist between the gods and the mortals.

Posted by: Paula Pion at September 19, 2013 10:31 AM

Stephanie Gilbert
Dr. Hobbs
Eng-210CL- Love and Desire in Literature-CA01
18 September 2013

Question # 16: What is the connection that Socrates makes between good things and beautiful things? After Socrates is finished, the participants of the symposium are left with a new definition of love. According to Socrates, what is love? Explain providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first state the translation you are using).

Answer to # 16: (Translated by Benjamin Jowett) Socrates makes the connection between beauty and good by saying that Love has no beauty and beauty has no love, therefore, “is not the good also beautiful, and in loving the beautiful, love, therefore, wants the good? (Jowett Pg. 20)” “Socrates says love is a god,” but later on during the symposium he learns from Diotima “love cannot be a god because a god does not know the difference between what is good and fair. She says that love is a spirit that communicates between gods and mortals, “Taking the prayers and sacrifices of men with him.”

Posted by: stephanie gilbert at September 19, 2013 12:59 PM

Jasmine Charlton
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
19 September 2013

Question: When it is time for Socrates to speak, what does he request from Phaedrus, the symposium’s host? How does he plan to do something different? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: In the Benjamin Jowett translation of Plato’s symposium, after Agathon had graced the audience with his ideas it was time for Socrates to take the stage. Before he even started he requested permission to speak the truth from Phaedrus when he said, “let me have your permission first to ask Agathon a few questions, in order that I may take his admissions as the premises of my discourse” [Plato]. Throughout his speech, he used a series of cross-examination, which was later called the Socratic method. An example of this process is when Socrates said, “Is not a brother to be regarded essentially as a brother of something” and Agathon responded then Socrates responded by saying, “ That is, of a brother or sister” [Plato]. The aim of Socrates’ speech was to correct Agathon on the claims he had made and to bring logic into the argument about love and Eros.

Posted by: jasmine charlton at September 19, 2013 01:41 PM

Jasmine Charlton
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
19 September 2013

Question: When it is time for Socrates to speak, what does he request from Phaedrus, the symposium’s host? How does he plan to do something different? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: In the Benjamin Jowett translation of Plato’s symposium, after Agathon had graced the audience with his ideas it was time for Socrates to take the stage. Before he even started he requested permission to speak the truth from Phaedrus when he said, “let me have your permission first to ask Agathon a few questions, in order that I may take his admissions as the premises of my discourse” [Plato]. Throughout his speech, he used a series of cross-examination, which was later called the Socratic method. An example of this process is when Socrates said, “Is not a brother to be regarded essentially as a brother of something” and Agathon responded then Socrates responded by saying, “ That is, of a brother or sister” [Plato]. The aim of Socrates’ speech was to correct Agathon on the claims he had made and to bring logic into the argument about love and Eros.

Posted by: jasmine charlton at September 19, 2013 01:41 PM

Camila Pinzon
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
19 September 2013

Question 26: Why is it significant, and perhaps, even ironic that plato chose to have this lesson about love told by a woman? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

Answer: Reading the Symposium by Plato a Benjamin Jowett translation, Socrates leaves all the men in awe as he speaks of love and how indeed Eros is not a beautiful god at all, for to love is to desire forever beauty and good. Hence, one cannot desire what one already has. Socrates gives all the credit for his knowledge on the subject to a woman, “I would rehearse a tale of love which I heard from Diotima of Mantineia, a woman wise in this and in many other kinds of knowledge,” (Jowett 20). Socrates astound all the men in the symposium for he one of the most intelligent men there he learned it all from a woman. Thinking back to Ancient Greek customs and traditions, women were worthy of two occupations, which were child bearers and housewives. Women are demeaned and controlled from the day they are born; therefore, it is very ironic how a ‘woman’ could have been so wise to teach Socrates of such a subject even a room full of men who have been debating about for hours.

Posted by: Camila Pinzon at September 19, 2013 10:25 PM

Maria Benkirane 

Dr. Hobbs

ENG 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature

19 September 2013

Question: Which, according to Aristophanes, are persons more attracted to in potential lovers: a) certain qualities in that person, or, (b) the person himself/herself? how can we tell the difference between these two things? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: The version I am using is by Benjamin Jewitt. According to Aristophanes, persons are more attracted to not to certain qualities but to the person him or herself. We are attracted to one person not because they have certain qualities that are attractive, but rather because our personalities are common and that person could then be the other half that could result in the idea of being "whole". Aristophanes said, "They are satisfied with living if hey may be allow to live with one another unwedded; and such a nature is prone to love and ready to return love, always embracing that which is akin to him. And when one of them meets with this other half, the actual half of himself, whether he be a lover of youth or a lover of another sort, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and would not be out of the other's sight, as I may say, even for a moment. These are the people who pass their whole lives together; yet they could not explain what they desire of one another. For the intense yearning who each of them has towards the other does not appear to be the desire of lover's intercourse, but of something else which the soul of either evidently desire and cannot tell and of which she has only a dark and doubtful presentiment" (14). Once we find someone with similar qualities, we feel the urge to share love and life together in order to get rid of the idea of feeling incomplete and something is missing.

Posted by: Maria Benkirane at September 19, 2013 10:47 PM

Jocelyne Hilary
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature

20th September 2013

Question: How is the topic of Agathon’s speech different from the previous speakers? In what direction does he turn the previous theses in his antithesis?

Answer: Agathon’s speech differs from the previous speakers, because as he points out, not one of them focused on the virtues of love. On the contrary, they all discussed personal gain that results out of love. Agathon was also known to be very poetic in comparison to the other speakers. Agathon admired and respected the God of Love and not just love as a notion. “Love' is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete.” He believed there was more to love such as youth and vitality. He believes love is a virtue that encourages other important virtues in life such as wisdom.

Posted by: Jocelyne Hilary at September 20, 2013 01:17 AM

Regina Green
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
22 September 2013

Question: By the time the conversation of the young Socrates and his old erotic teacher concludes, he has a somewhat modified/ revised definition of love. What is it? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (First, state which translation you are using).

Answer: I used Translation of Plato's _Symposium_ by Benjamin Jowett - 35 Pages. Socrates old erotic teacher says, "beholding beauty with
the eye of the mind, he will be enabled to bring forth, not images of beauty, but realities" (Jowett 27). What she's saying is that once you do love someone, you will not love them for what they look like but for who they are. Socrates was taught to love the beauty of the mind rather than the body. He was taught that love is the desire for the good in any given person.

Posted by: Regina Green at September 22, 2013 11:25 AM

McKenzie Burns
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
20 September 2013

In Class Group Assignment

Question 4: As a couple in a romantic relationship, do Kamala and Siddhartha symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Kamala and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Answer: I believe that Kamala and Siddhartha complete one another. Siddhartha tells Kamala, “You are like me, you are different from most people” (Hesse 53). When you are in love, typically the person that you are in love with, has qualities that you have. Your soul mate, a person that completes you, will have your qualities and the qualities that you do not, that is why they complete each other. When Siddhartha comes to see Kamala, he is seeking to “learn how to make love” (Hesse 41). Kamala would like to have some of Siddhartha’s attributes like knowing how to read and write. Kamala desires for Siddhartha to speak his poems and kind words to her often. Something is missing, and that something that is missing is true love. Siddhartha states to Kamala, “ I am like you. You also do not love” (Hesse 54). They are complete physically and mentally, but not emotionally. They both know that they can never truly love anyone, but they do love each other in a sense. They have both completed each other. Kamala has given Siddhartha the sense of having physical objects will complete him. On the other hand, Siddhartha has given Kamala the sense of being more about the soul and spirit.

Posted by: McKenzie Burns at September 22, 2013 12:06 PM

Deirdre Rowan
Dr. Hobbs
English 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September, 2013

Question 9: Agathon makes several descriptive claims (virtues) about Eros, a few of which seem irrational or overly enthusiastic. ONE of Agathon’s claims about Eros are that he is: Sensitive; Why (according to Agathon’s reasoning)?

Answer: Agathon claims that Eros is sensitive because he inhabits the soul and mind of a person, parts that are not physical like a skull or the body. Eros also does not impose himself onto people; if the person hardens himself, then Eros will move on to someone else.

“[ . . . ] for he walks not upon the earth, nor yet upon skulls of men, which are not so very soft, but in the hearts and souls of both god, and men, which are of all things the softest: in them he walks and dwells and makes his home. Not in every soul without exception, for Where there is hardness he departs, where there is softness there he dwells; and nestling always with his feet and in all manner of ways in the softest of soft places, how can he be other than the softest of all things (Benjamin Jowett Translation-http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/symposium.html)?”

Posted by: Deirdre Rowan at September 22, 2013 03:37 PM

Matt Nicholson-Lewis
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013



Question #20: According to Socrates’s erotic teacher, why is it problematic to a “lover” one who desires the good and/or the beautiful? Explain providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

After Agathon has spoken about what he thinks love is, Socrates speaks and explain how he once said love was exactly as Agathon had put forward. “I said to her in nearly the same words which you used to me, that love was a mighty God, and like wise fair” (Jowett). Socrates then goes on to talk about how he explained to Diotima that love is when you love good things. She then counters him with a speech saying that love is neither good nor fair and raises the question “must that be foul which is not fair” (Jowett). This is Diotima asking Socrates if everything must be seen in black and white? Next Diotima asks Socrates why he thinks that true love is love of beautiful and good things. She then goes on to show him that if this were true then everyone would be a lover as people want good and beautiful things for themselves. Socrates speaks to Diotima on various occasions to learn more about love and what it truly means.

Posted by: Matt Nicholson-Lewis at September 22, 2013 03:52 PM

Matt Nicholson-Lewis
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013



Question #20: According to Socrates’s erotic teacher, why is it problematic to a “lover” one who desires the good and/or the beautiful? Explain providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

After Agathon has spoken about what he thinks love is, Socrates speaks and explain how he once said love was exactly as Agathon had put forward. “I said to her in nearly the same words which you used to me, that love was a mighty God, and like wise fair” (Jowett). Socrates then goes on to talk about how he explained to Diotima that love is when you love good things. She then counters him with a speech saying that love is neither good nor fair and raises the question “must that be foul which is not fair” (Jowett). This is Diotima asking Socrates if everything must be seen in black and white? Next Diotima asks Socrates why he thinks that true love is love of beautiful and good things. She then goes on to show him that if this were true then everyone would be a lover as people want good and beautiful things for themselves. Socrates speaks to Diotima on various occasions to learn more about love and what it truly means.

Posted by: Matt Nicholson-Lewis at September 22, 2013 03:52 PM

Matt Nicholson-Lewis
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013



Question #20: According to Socrates’s erotic teacher, why is it problematic to a “lover” one who desires the good and/or the beautiful? Explain providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

After Agathon has spoken about what he thinks love is, Socrates speaks and explain how he once said love was exactly as Agathon had put forward. “I said to her in nearly the same words which you used to me, that love was a mighty God, and like wise fair” (Jowett). Socrates then goes on to talk about how he explained to Diotima that love is when you love good things. She then counters him with a speech saying that love is neither good nor fair and raises the question “must that be foul which is not fair” (Jowett). This is Diotima asking Socrates if everything must be seen in black and white? Next Diotima asks Socrates why he thinks that true love is love of beautiful and good things. She then goes on to show him that if this were true then everyone would be a lover as people want good and beautiful things for themselves. Socrates speaks to Diotima on various occasions to learn more about love and what it truly means.

Posted by: Matthew Nicholson-Lewis at September 22, 2013 03:53 PM

Lindsey Thilmony
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire of Literature
22 September 2013

Question: By the time the conversation of the young Socrates with his old erotic teacher concludes, he has somewhat a modified/revised definition of love. What is it?

Answer: Socrates’s erotic teacher is Diotima and what she said to Socrates about love is this, "Then love, she said, may be described generally as the love of the everlasting possession of the good? That is most true" (Jowett 23). In those times goodness also meant beautifulness, as long as the Gods were good then they were also beautiful. Love is the desire for the good, because good is beautiful.

Posted by: Lindsey Thilmony at September 22, 2013 05:11 PM

McKenzie Burns
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
21 September 2013

Translation: Benjamin Jowett

Question #4: Did Aristophanes see any fundamental difference in the underlying theory of love in hetero relationships as opposed to same-sex relationships?

Answer:Yes Aristophanes saw a fundamental difference. He made the argument that there are three sexes; man, woman, and the union of the two (Jowett). Zeus split mankind in two. When the two parts found each other, of the same-sex, they "began to die from hunger and self neglect, because they did not do anything apart; and when one of the halves died and the other survived, the survivor sought another mate" (Jowett). Once the surviving half found the opposite sex half, they survived and reproduced, therefore the race of mankind could continue. Aristophanes says that the Gods split us for a reason and if we do not obey them, there is a danger that we shall split up again and go about in "basso-relievo", or sculptures that are only risen slightly from the background.

Posted by: McKenzie Burns at September 22, 2013 05:47 PM

Jordan Dadez
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
20 September 2013

Question: We are still in the world of dichotomies. Explain the evolution or the process of love, as first experienced by a young boy in Diotima’s model. How does it srart, according to her, and how does it end (if it was done correctly)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

Answer: In The Symposium, Socrates describes the stages of love as one progresses throughout life through Diotima’s eyes. She says, “For he who would proceed aright in this matter should begin in youth to visit beautiful forms; and first, if he be guided by his instructor aright, to love one such form only-out of that he should create fair thoughts; and soon he will of himself perceive that the beauty of
one form is akin to the beauty of another; and then if beauty of form in general is his pursuit, how foolish would he be not to recognize that the beauty in every form is and the same! And when he perceives this he will abate his violent love of the one, which he will despise and deem a small thing, and will become a lover of all beautiful forms; in the next stage he will consider that the beauty of the mind is more honourable than the beauty of the outward form. So that if a virtuous soul have but a little comeliness, he will be content to love and tend him, and will search out and bring to the
birth thoughts which may improve the young, until he is compelled to contemplate and see the beauty of institutions and laws, and to understand that the beauty of them all is of one family, and that personal beauty is a trifle; and after laws and institutions he will go on to the sciences, that he may see their beauty, being not like a servant in love with the beauty of one youth or man or institution, himself a slave mean and narrow-minded, but drawing towards and contemplating the vast sea of beauty, he will create many fair and noble thoughts and notions in boundless love of wisdom; until on that shore he grows and waxes strong, and at last the vision is revealed to him of a single science, which is the science of beauty everywhere” (Plato 26). When it is first read, it comes across as overwhelming. If it is broken down piece by piece, it is easy to understand. She first states that in youth, man perceives beauty to be in one form, and that is the aesthetic form of beauty. Youth turns into man and he will desire a companion, or a teacher of love, and this teacher of love will show him that there are different kinds of beauty, for example, inward beauty. Then he will renounce his previous idea of love for this more sophisticated form. Because of this new recognition, he will go from beauty to beauty until he learns that beauty is everywhere. Every individual beauty merges into a uniform beauty that takes all forms. If the youth who is now man, has gone through his journey correctly, this is the destination that he will arrive it.

Posted by: Jordan Dadez at September 22, 2013 06:10 PM

Erica Bodden
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013


Question: Agathon makes several descriptive claims about Eros, a few of which seem irrational or overly enthusiastic, one of Agathons claims about Eros’s is that he is Happy; why according to Agathon’s reasoning?
Answer: In the Benjamin Jowett translation, Agathon claims Eros is the happiest of all the gods because “that of all most blessed gods he is the fairest and the best.” According to Agathon, beauty ensures happiness. He continues to say that not only was Eros beautiful but also youth, this factor also contributed to his happiness, “and of his youth he is himself, the witness, fleeing out of the way of age.” All of the claims Agathon makes about Eros are shallow and vain, similar to his own self-perception. Unlike the rest of the speeches, Agathon fails to describe what love is, he only lists qualities in which he possess.

Posted by: Erica Bodden at September 22, 2013 07:28 PM

Jalisa Lowe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
23 September 2013

Question: Agathon makes several descriptive claims (virtues) about Eros, a few of which seem irrational or overly enthusiastic. ONE of Agathon’s claims about Eros are that he is: Sensitive; Why (according to Agathon’s reasoning)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: In Benjamin Jowett text on Plato’s Symposium, one of Agathon’s claims about Eros are that he is Sensitive. Agathon states, “Not in every soul without exception, for where there is hardness he departs, where there is softness there he dwells; and nestling always with his feet and in all manner of ways in the softest of soft places, how can he be other than the softest of all things? Of a truth he is the tenderest as well as the youngest, and also he is of flexile form; for if he were hard and without flexure he could not enfold all things, or wind his way into and out of every soul of man undiscovered” (Jowett 16). Agathon is expressing Eros must be sensitive because gods cannot get through our heart and soul.

Posted by: Jalisa Lowe at September 22, 2013 08:13 PM

Lauren Rhodes
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
20 September 2013

Question: As fellow-seekers, in Siddhartha’s student-teacher relationship with Gotama, the Buddha (even if only temporary), do Siddhartha and Gotama symbolically complete one another (even if only partially)? If so, how? What is good/beautiful in each of them that the other desires? When Gotama and Siddhartha are together, are they whole, or is there something still missing? What is it and why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Siddhartha and Gotama compliment each other. While even though they both disagree on some things, they are able to talk about what they believe in without any harsh disagreement and hatred towards one another. Siddhartha wants to reach enlightenment without any teachers, while Gotama is the opposite.

Even towards the end of their meeting Siddhartha comes to a very important realization "He has robbed me, yet he has given me something of greater value. he has robbed me of my friend, who believed in me and who now believes in him; he was my shadow and is now Gotama's shadow. But he has given to me Siddhartha, myself." (Hesse 36)

Posted by: Lauren Rhodes at September 22, 2013 08:48 PM

Morgan Salter
Dr. Hobbs
English 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
23 September 2013

Question: When it is time for Socrates to speak, what does he request from Phaedrus, the symposium’s host? How does he plan to do something different? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).
Answer: The translation I will be using to answer this question is The Public Domain Version. When it is time for Socrates to speak, he first requests something of Phaedrus, the symposium’s host. Socrates asks permission to say what he wanted “spoken in any words and in any order which may happen to come into my mind at the time” (Plato) and if he could ask Agathon more follow up questions to lead into his speech. This is different because he is using the Socratic Method to further his point about love whereas the other guests at the symposium generically state and argue their point through example and speech.

Posted by: Morgan Salter at September 22, 2013 10:14 PM

Allison Knipe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013

Question: 14. What method or technique does Socrates use to rip Agathon's previous conceptions about Eros to shreds?

Socrates uses the socratic method to challenge Agathon. This is where he asks questions to obtain answer. He asks, "I will ask about love:- Is love of something or nothing?" He uses this to challenge Agathon's original thinking.

Posted by: Allison Knipe at September 22, 2013 10:42 PM

Lauren Rhodes
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
20 September 2013

Question: What method or technique does Socrates use to rip Agathon's previous conceptions about Eros to shreds? Explain, Providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (First, state which translation you are using).

The translation I am using is by Seth Bernadete. After Agathon's speech, Socrates uses the method of question and answer to prove him wrong. Socrates responds with 'You blessed innocent! How can you say that?" (27)

Socrates then proceeds to question Agathon to break him down. He explains how he made a good start to his speech: "Well, dear Agathon, in my opinion you made a fine start to your speech, in saying that one had to show first what sort of
being Eros himself is, and then his deeds." (28) And then he proceeds to ask him question after question. For example: "'What about this point? Is a brother, just in terms of what he is,a brother of someone, or isn't he?'" (29)

Posted by: Lauren Rhodes at September 22, 2013 10:51 PM

Kelly Scott
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
22 September 2013

Question: How does Socrates end up characterizing Eros to look much like himself? What does the word philosophy mean? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

Answer: The Benjamin Jowett translation was used to answer this question. Socrates and Diotima discussed what they believed love was and came to the conclusion that love revolves around wisdom. In the tale, it is stated, “So that if a virtuous soul have but a little comeliness, he will be content to love and tend him, and will search out and bring to the birth thoughts which may improve the young, until he is compelled to contemplate and see the beauty of institutions and laws, and to understand that the beauty of them all is of one family, and that personal beauty is a trifle; and after laws and institutions he will go on to the sciences, that he may see their beauty, being not like a servant in love with the beauty of one youth or man or institution, himself a slave mean and narrow-minded, but drawing towards and contemplating the vast sea of beauty, he will create many fair and noble thoughts and notions in boundless love of wisdom; until on that shore he grows and waxes strong, and at last the vision is revealed to him of a single science, which is the science of beauty everywhere” (Jowett, 26). Socrates is a philosopher, which relates to their conclusion of Eros being the love of wisdom. The word “philosophy” can be broken down into bits to explain the true meaning. Philo means love and sophia means wisdom. Therefore, philosophy means love of wisdom. Socrates and Eros both have in common the love of wisdom. Wisdom is placed at a higher regard than the body and soul, according to Socrates.

Posted by: Kelly Scott at September 22, 2013 11:00 PM

Vanessa Parkin
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
19 September 2013

Question: What is the good/beautiful that Govinda seeks? What is missing in his life that, if found, will make him whole/repaired? Is this quality (or, qualities) contained in one or more of the other characters he has encountered? Who ? Why? Be prepared to explain with quoted passages from the text.

Answer: Govinda seeks the ultimate enlightenment. He started his journey with the desire to reach the Nirvana. Once Govinda reaches his goal, he will become whole. The good and the beautiful that Govinda seeks is the wisdom that Siddhartha has acquired over the many years they spent apart. Through Siddharthas many faces Govinda suddenly realizes the perfected ones are smiling, “Not knowing any more whether time existed, whether the vision had lasted a second of a hundred years, not knowing any more whether there existed a Siddhartha, a Gotama, a me and a you, feeling in his innermost self as if he has been wounded by a divine arrow, the injury of which tasted sweet, being enchanted and dissolved in his innermost self, Govinda still stood for a little while bent over Siddhartha’s face, which he has just kissed, which has just been the scene of all manifestations, all transformations, all existence.” (Hesse 104).

Posted by: Vanessa Parkin at September 22, 2013 11:16 PM

Dana DeLosa
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01: Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013

Question: “How does Socrates end up characterizing Eros to look much like himself? What does the word philosophy mean? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using)”

Translation Used: Benjamin Jowett

Answer: Socrates uses Diotima’s explanation of Eros to portray him in a way that also depicts Socrates thus likening himself to a god. Diotima first describes love as “neither mortal nor immortal”; this description describes Socrates because while his physical self may be mortal, the ideals and philosophies he presented will live on throughout history (Jowett 21). The principle of immortal ideas, Diotima also presents. Further Diotima accredits one of Eros’s greatest powers to be that “he interprets” which is synonymous with Socrates bases his life’s work on the interpretation of human nature (Jowett 21). Finally, Diotima describes the word philosophy as a “love of wisdom” and as such, a mean to prevent ignorance (Jowett 22).

Posted by: Dana DeLosa at September 23, 2013 12:16 AM

Connor Schaefer
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL- CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
23 September 2013

Question: How does Diotima feel about the commonly repeated idea that “we are same throughout our entire lives”? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.


Answer: Diotima does not think people stay the same throughout their lives. She believes that people grow up. Diotima states, “. . . a man is called the same, and yet in the short interval which elapses between youth and age, and in which every animal is said to have life and identity, he is undergoing a perpetual process of loss and reparation-hair, flesh, bones, blood, and the whole body are always changing” (Plato 24). Diotima is saying how a man will always be a man, but the body will change from youth to age. No human will ever stay the same. Another thing Diotima talked about was how the soul and mind change. The brain is continually changing because it gains knowledge. People’s opinions change as well throughout life, which makes things different. People will always change throughout their lives.

Posted by: Connor Schaefer at September 23, 2013 12:41 AM

Ashley Johnson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 122 CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
22 September 2013

Question #16

What is the connection that Socrates makes between good things and beautiful things? After Socrates is finished, the participants of the symposium are left with a new definition of love. According to Socrates, what is love? Explain, providing passage from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Using the Benjamin Jowett Translation
Answer:
The connection that Socrates makes between good things and beautiful things is that love wants to have these things because he feels that it will make him better. Everyone wants happiness and goodness for themselves. This would make everyone lovers. Love is developed through multiple stages and once you progress to the final stage, which is when you truly learn to love. Socrates says, “By going through these stages, one will ascend from loving particular kinds of beauty to loving Beauty itself, from which all beautiful things derive their nature (Plato).”

Posted by: Ashley Johnson at September 23, 2013 01:04 AM

Diana Shoemaker
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
23 September 2013

Question: Why does Agathon suggest that it is more intimidating to speak to a small group than a large one? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using.)

Answer: In the Benjamin Jowett translation of Plato’s Symposium, Agathon believes that it is more intimidating to speak before a small group of intelligent people than a large crowd. Socrates does not understand why and says “you came upon the stage with the actors and faced the vast theatre altogether undismayed, if I thought that your nerves could be fluttered at a small party of friends” (Plato). Agathon wants his crowd to be large and of all ages, especially young boys so that they can take the knowledge that Agathon has to give rather than try to explain things to a well-educated older crowd.

Posted by: Diana Shoemaker at September 23, 2013 01:50 AM

Julia Della Penna
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
20 September 2013

Question #10: Agathon makes several descriptive claims (virtues) about Eros, a few of which seem irrational or overly enthusiastic. ONE of Agathon’s claims about Eros are that he is: Just; Why (according to Agathon’s reasoning)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: For the following assessment, the Benjamin Jowett translation is used. In Agathon’s speech about Eros, he makes a claim that Eros is Just. According to Agathon’s reasoning behind such claim is, first he will speak well of Eros’ being and then will shift to commending his benefit towards man. Agathon acknowledges that Eros is “Soft, fair, just, temperate, courageous, wise, poetic, artistic, peaceful, and orderly.” (196b-196d). Agathon speaks so highly of the nature of Eros because he believes that Love is the most beautiful and righteous of the gods. As quoted from Agathon’s speech, “In the days of old, as I began saying, dreadful deeds were done among the gods, for they were ruled by Necessity; but now since the birth of Love, and from the love of the beautiful, has spring every good in heaven and earth,” (196e-197b).

Posted by: Julia Della Penna at September 23, 2013 01:55 AM

Jasmine Collins
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL: Love and Desire in Literature CA01
23 September 2013
Question 21: How does Diotima use the concepts of pregnancy and reproduction in an androgynous way? Explain, providing from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).
Answer: Diotima is discussing with Socrates about procreation. She uses “everyone can be pregnant” as a metaphor; which means that it is all of a mind over body concept. "Those who are pregnant in the body only, betake themselves to women and beget children-this is the character of their love; their offspring, as they hope, will preserve their memory and giving them the blessedness and immortality which they desire in the future” (Jowett 25), this explains what she thinks will happen if you just think about it in a bodily way. “But souls which are pregnant-for there certainly are men who are more creative in their souls than in their bodies conceive that which is proper for the soul to conceive or contain” (Jowett 25), this explains her point if you think about it in a mind way. The mind way, gives the impression that men can be pregnant. She is stating that if men were this emotional about their children, then they have the idea of being pregnant.
I used the Benjamin Jowett translation.

Posted by: Jasmine Collins at September 23, 2013 04:58 AM

Diego Pestana
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL CA01 – Love and Desire in Literature
18 September 2013
#1
Q: Hegemonic dichotomies. What is wholeness? In Aristophanes' dichotomy of completeness vs. incompleteness, or uninjured vs. injured, which is the privileged concept? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).
A: The translation of Plato's Symposium used for this answer is done by B. Jowett via The Project Gutenberg. According to Aristophanes, wholeness is being full or complete without any kind of division. In his myth regarding the origin of the sexes and how it relates to love, wholeness is represented by the original creatures that had four arms and legs, two heads, two genitalia, etc. prior to being divided by Zeus. In Aristophanes' dichotomy, the privileged concepts are being complete and uninjured. In concluding his story, Aristophanes states that, “For love is the desire of the whole, and the pursuit of the whole is called love” (Plato).

Posted by: Diego Pestana at September 23, 2013 10:05 AM

Salvatore Christlieb
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
Dr. Hobbs
23 September 2013

Question: We are still in the world of dichotomies. Explain the evolution or the process of love, as first experienced by a young boy in Diotima's model. How does it start, according to her, and how does it end (if it was done correctly)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).


Answer: Love is not only divine and between man and divine, love is defined as a process of building upon such a feeling. This explanation of love can be confusing but, as Diotima explains:
“He who from these ascending under the influence of true love, begins to perceive that beauty, is not far from the end. And the true order of going, or being led by another, to the things of love, is to begin from the beauties of earth and mount upwards for the sake of that other beauty, using these as steps only, and from one going on to two, and from two to all fair forms, and from fair forms to fair practices, and from fair practices to fair notions, until from fair notions he arrives at the notion of absolute beauty, and at last knows what the essence of beauty is” (Plato’s Symposium).
The process that Diotima mentions is complex because love itself is complex and inexplicable for humans without scientific facts or words. During the time period that Diotima and Socrates were conversing, scientific facts, and data was scarce. The words used to describe the process of love are only spiritual with very little science, if any at all. Today, if anyone were to explain love without scientific facts, that person may have to come up with the same process as Diotima or something similar. Thus, the explanation of love will always be hard, even for those who feel it.

References
Plato. "The Symposium: Diotima's Definition of Love." The Symposium: Diotima's Definition of Love. N.p., n.d. Web. 23 Sept. 2013. .

Posted by: Salvatore Christlieb at September 23, 2013 11:05 AM

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*NOTE* 23 September 2013. The deadline for your HOMEWORK QUESTIONS has now passed. Any comments listed below are *ONLY* for the posting of the essay question which was part II of quiz/test #1. It is due by class time, Wednesday, 25 September 2013.

Any student posts appearing below that missed the assignment deadline will not get credit for the assignment.


~ Dr. Hobbs


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Posted by: Dr. Hobbs at September 23, 2013 11:07 AM

SP: Cheyeanne
SC: Lydia
RES: Vera, Stephanie
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 Love and Desire in Literature CA02
13 September 2013

2.) In Plato's Symposium, what is the primary claim of Pausaniaus?

In Plato's Symposium Pausianiuas believes in commonly love and heavenly love. While on the other hand, it is believed that there are two loves; love and the beloved. Basically stating that there are there is someone who receives the love and one who gives the love. As it states in the Symposium, "Love will make men dare to die for their beloved — love alone; and women as well as men (Jowett).

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*NOTE* 23 September 2013. Any student posts appearing BELOW this marker should be for the take-home (open book), essay question portion of the test. It is/was due by class time on 25 September 2013


~ Dr. Hobbs


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Posted by: Lydia Santana at September 23, 2013 03:25 PM

Kaitlin Millner
Professor Hobbs
24 September 2013

QUESTION#1:DiscusstheconceptoftheLoverandtheBeloved,asfirstproposedbyPhaedrusinPlato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

In the stories proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium and Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, both characters have a passionate concept of the lover and the beloved that is shared through out the novels. To be loved and too beloved are two different definitions. Loving something or someone is a passionate emotion that characters such as Govinda and Siddhartha share. Love is also shown in Siddhartha when Siddhartha rejects his love for teaching when Siddhartha realizes that his teachings down lead him to a greater knowledge in his journey. To beloved is shown by when Siddhartha and Govinda both have a prime understanding of each other spirituality. “He loved everything Siddhartha did and said and what he loved most was his spirit, his transcendent, fiery thoughts, his ardent will, his high calling.” (Siddhartha pg.7) There love is not shown physically but yet, more spirituality.
In Plato, Phaedrus is enthusiast of Socrates. This shows Phaedrus’s is the lover and Socrates is being beloved. This shows a significant part in the story all because Socratic dialogue on Plato’s set views on sex and love. Phaedrus onion is to talk about love.
In conclusion, to be in loved or to beloved both share a relationship between characters in Plato Symposium and in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. A search for spiritual enlightens the two stories.

Posted by: Kaitlin Millner at September 24, 2013 07:02 PM

Salvatore Christlieb
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
Dr. Hobbs
24 September 2013

Question: In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice (use passages from the Symposium text, if necessary, to support your definition). Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?

Answer: Narcissism defined as an erotic obsession of oneself; beyond mere appreciation of the body, narcissism can reflect a want of extreme betterment of the body and spirit. Furthermore, these traits can be accompanied by lonesome. This unique characteristic found within literature such as Siddhartha. Narcissism is prevalent because Siddhartha embarks on a journey to master the Self and rid its impurities. As Siddhartha’s thoughts explained from the beginning of his journey “Siddhartha had one single goal—to become empty, to become empty of thirst, desire, dreams, pleasure and sorrow—to let the Self die” (Hesse 11). Even though he wanted to rid himself of such impure qualities, he had a sick obsession with his self. By bettering the self, he partook in the act of narcissism. This unique twist of narcissism found in Siddhartha should be considered good even though it is a mere perversion. The perversion of narcissism is gradual as it builds throughout the story. Narcissism utilized as a good quality of Siddhartha because it betters himself, but, it still has negative impacts on Siddhartha’s relationships. Siddhartha’s leaves Govinda with Gautama because he does not want to accept Gautama’s teachings. Narcissism revealed itself in Siddhartha when he states “the Buddha robbed me…he has robbed me, yet he has given me something of greater value…he has given to me Siddhartha, myself” (Hesse 29). This extreme of desire of being happy about loneliness is a representation of narcissism. Govinda was Siddhartha’s best friend and Siddhartha was happy to be alone. It is clear that Siddhartha wanted to be alone to rid himself of impurities.


References
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha;. [New York]: New Directions, 1951. Print.

Posted by: Salvatore Christlieb at September 24, 2013 08:17 PM

Vera Smirnova
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Question #8: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Love is an important part of Herman Hesse’s story of Siddhartha. The protagonist begins his journey as a young man seeking for the knowledge. He goes to the woods to reach spiritual enlightenment. As a Samana, he has to be free of any wishes and desires, but one day he meets a beautiful courtesan Kamala and everything changes. Siddhartha discovers love in a very similar to Diotima’s theory way. First, he falls in love with the beauty of a courtesan. Later, living amongst people, he begins to appreciate their lives and even envy their ability to love. He is learning the art of love from Kamala. The main character has an attraction to her and her wisdom. The difference of Siddhartha’s story and Diotima’s philosophy is in the ending. The way of how “appreciation of all wisdom” comes to him. It did not come to him with the love of the courtesan, but with love of his son. It opened to him all the colors of emotions and love. Siddhartha’s understanding of love changes through the story as an inconstant river.

References
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. New York: New Directions Books, 1957. Print.

Posted by: Vera Smirnova at September 24, 2013 08:35 PM

Jocelyne Hilary
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
24th September 2013
Part II of Test –#3
In Plato’s Symposium, when it is Pausanias’ turn to discuss love, he uses his speech to place emphasis on the difference between “profane love” and “heavenly love.” From his speech, it is understood that he believes that love is not completely good, nor is it completely bad. From this idea, it is implied that “profane love” is the negative kind of love to behold. “Profane love” or common love is bad for us because it is more of a physical attraction that does not have a deeper significance. Pausanias frowned upon this kind of love, "since all they care about is completing the sexual act.” (181 b)
In contrast to this superficial love, “Heavenly love” is the good kind of love. It has a deeper meaning, and involves intelligence and the idea of being in it long term. Pausanias describes “heavenly love” as the love that exchanges wisdom and virtue consequently educating the other and gratifying them.
In Hesse’s Siddhartha, I believe that the relationship between the protagonist and Govinda is closest to what Pausanias described as “heavenly love.” Since Govinda and Siddhartha have a deep friendship, it cannot be described as superfluous nor as a physical attraction, so “profane love” does not define their relationship.
Although, Siddhartha and Govinda are not sexually or romantically involved, there are aspects of Pausanias’ speech that are reflected in these two characters relationship. The mention of intelligence, being long term, and the exchange of wisdom and virtue in order to educate can be associated with Siddhartha and Govinda. In the chapter Govinda, it is implied that he has attained “Nirvana” simply by kissing his friend on the forehead. “He no longer saw his friend Siddhartha’s face; in its place he saw other faces, many of them… (pg. 80).” Therefore, I think Govinda has gained a virtue from his friend, and wasn’t Pausanias’ claim that love was the gain of virtue, and Nirvana I believe is a virtue.
I think that other characters especially those close to Siddhartha would classify this as “heavenly love” since their friendship lasted a lifetime, and despite parting ways, they did find their way back to each other. Govinda was on the first significant people in Siddhartha’s life the reader was introduced to, and similarly he is one of the last to be mentioned at the end.

Posted by: Jocelyne Hilary at September 24, 2013 08:37 PM

Hector M. Rosario
ENG 210CL CA01
Professor Hobbs
September 23, 2013

Test Part Two: Essay Question Two

The first topic introduced for debate in Plato’s Symposium fell to Phaedrus. He proposed the concept of the Lover and the Beloved. As described by Phaedrus, the Lover are those whom “are willing to die for the sake of another” (Plato, page 240). The Beloved are seen as those who have multiple people worshiping them. The worship is unlike a God, but the individual, or individuals, are held to a higher standard than normalcy. Phaedrus spoke of the two sides “…for they would abstain from all that is shameful and be filled with love of honor before one another” (Plato, page 240). Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha relates Phaedrus’ ideals with the love between Siddhartha, as the Lover, and Kamala, as the Beloved.

Siddhartha is involved in numerous relationships throughout the text; his biggest in regards to “the Lover” being with Kamala. At first glance of Kamala, “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart laughed” (Hesse, page 43). In order to better prepare for his introduction to Kamala, Siddhartha let the city take him revolve around him. He had the barber’s assistant shave his beard and cut his hair, comb it with fine oil, and bathed in the river to get ready to see Kamala the next day. Siddhartha seeks to learn the art of which Kamala teaches; that being the art of love. Kamala pays him almost no mind until he tells her of his ability to write and read. She instructs him of the need obtain “lovely clothing, lovely shoes, lots of money in his purse, and gifts for Kamala” (Hesse, page 46). Siddhartha is so infatuated with Kamala that he asks what the fastest ways to obtain these three things are. Siddhartha has never seen such beauty, never has his heart laughed at the sight of any one person, he is the Lover to Kamala’s Beloved. Siddhartha speaks upon departure from his beloved saying “May it be so, my teacher. May my gaze always please you, may good fortune always come from me to you!” (Hesse, page 51). He has the need to seek approval from his beloved, the need to do well and have her around him at any time possible.

As she is Beloved by many being a courtesan, Kamala also experiences Phaedrus’ claim of guilt. Phaedrus claims during the symposium “We observe that this same thing holds in the case of the beloved; he is exceptionally shamed before his lovers whenever he is seen to be involved in something shameful” (Plato, page 240). This is much like that of Kamala’s instruction during Siddhartha’s first visit to her quarters. She said “I have a visitor, you must leave here quickly, Siddhartha, bear in mind that no one may see you here! Tomorrow I will see you again” (Hesse, page 48). Over time, Kamala grew closer to Siddhartha; to the extent as to even mention he was the best lover she had ever had and one day would have his child (Hesse, page 60).

As the years passed him, Siddhartha felt how “people liked him, they came to him when they needed money or advice, but no one was close to him, no one but Kamala” (Hesse, page 61). Phaedrus’ concept of the Lover and the Beloved are significant in Siddhartha because of the contrast in Siddhartha’s ultimate goal. He had an awakening to find himself instead of seeking out others and yet upon meeting Kamala wanted to learn from her the ways of love. He still learned more about himself from Kamala than any previous teacher he had spoken with, even the Gautama. However, he became overly enticed in his beloved he forgot of his goal of finding himself that he ultimately sank into a state of gambling away his fortunes. Phaedrus’ telling of the story of Achilles in Plato’s Symposium can relate to that of Siddhartha’s story. Achilles ran to the aid of Patroclus in the face of death and was rewarded by the Gods for doing so for making so much of his lover. Siddhartha was ever so persistent in having Kamala be his friend and teacher he worked with Kamaswami to learn the art of business and gain access to those lovely clothes, shoes, money, and gifts for his beloved Kamala.

As recalled by Phaedrus “The lover is a more divine thing than a beloved, for he has the god within him” (Plato, 241). Siddhartha and Kamala are the Lover and the Beloved that withstood the tests before them. Siddhartha changed his entire mindset and appearance to appeal to that of Kamala’s wants and in due course had Kamala change her view of him. The Lover had turned the Beloved into a Lover of Siddhartha.

Works Cited
"Plato's Symposium." Plato. Translated into English by Benardete, Seth. 1986. Web. 23 Sept.
2013. .
Hesse, Hermann, Rika Lesser, and Robert A. F. Thurman. Siddhartha: an Indic poem. New
York: Barnes & Noble Classics, 2007. Print.

Posted by: Hector Rosario at September 24, 2013 08:53 PM

Kelly Scott
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
24 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love applies to the relationship between Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view, i.e. would one character see the love as vulgar/common and the other as chaste/heavenly? If so, why is this significant to the story?
Answer: In the Symposium, several men expressed their opinions on Eros. Pausanias divided love into two types: heavenly love and common love. Heavenly love was described as a pure and chaste type of affection. Heavenly love did not focus on the body, rather it focused on the soul, intelligence, and the essence of the individual. This love is typically taken more seriously than common love. According to Pausanias, heavenly love is the preferred form of adoration. Pausanias described common love as vulgar. It is a simple and mindless desire that focuses more on the body than the soul. Common love is more shallow and superficial. Also, common love can be felt by a man toward a woman or a young boy because it revolves around sexual desires. Pausanias states, “The Love who is the offspring of the common Aphrodite is essentially common, and has no discrimination, being such as the meaner sort of men feel, and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul-the most foolish beings are the objects of this love which desires only to gain an end, but never thinks of accomplishing the end nobly, and therefore does good and evil quite indiscriminately” (Plato, 7). On the contrary, heavenly love is felt through a male toward a male. Pausanias also stated, “Those who are inspired by this love turn to the male, and delight in him who is the more valiant and intelligent nature; any one may recognise the pure enthusiasts in the very character of their attachments” (Plato, 7).
In Siddhartha, Siddhartha demonstrates a love based more off the concept of common love toward Govinda. The dream Siddhartha has about Govinda demonstrates this theory. The dream was explained in the book as, “Thereupon he embraced Govinda, put his arm round him, and he drew him to his breast and kissed him, he was Govinda no longer, but a woman and out of the woman’s gown emerged a full breast, and Siddhartha lay there and drank; sweet and strong tasted the milk from this breast” (Hesse, 48). Siddhartha took feelings of friendship with Govinda and subconsciously twisted them to erotic, common love desires. He was looking for a vulgar type of love through this dream. This dream led him to act the way he did toward Kamala, which was also through a common love fashion.
On the other hand, Govinda seems to fall into the category of heavenly love. He is searching for wisdom in a pure manner. He does not experience any type of vulgar love throughout the novel. Perhaps this is why Govinda’s relationship with Siddhartha was alienated when Govinda met Gotama. Perhaps Siddhartha had those feelings for Govinda because he was jealous of Govinda’s relationship with Gotama. After leaving Gotama and Govinda, Siddhartha thinks to himself, “He has robbed me of my friend, who believed in me and who now believes in him; he was my shadow and is now Gotama’s shadow” (Hesse, 36). Govinda was searching for a man he could learn from, and when he met Gotama, he knew that he found who he was looking for. He became Gotama’s “shadow,” and fell in love with him through his knowledge. If Siddhartha had felt the same way and had stayed with Gotama and Govinda, perhaps Govinda and Siddhartha would both share a heavenly love relationship. Because they both desired different things, they became estranged throughout the story.

Works Cited

"HEAVENLY LOVE AND COMMON LOVE! DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN LOVES OR BETWEEN MEN AND
WOMEN?" AUWs Interpreting Texts Spring 2013. N.p., n.d. Web. 24 Sept. 2013.
differentiating-between-loves-or-between-men-and-women/>.

Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha;. [New York]: New Directions, 1951. Print.

Plato. "Symposium." Benjamin Jowett, n.d. Web. 24 Sept. 2013. 1.amazonaws.com/docs/797/864402/Plato_-_Symposium_-_360_BCE_-
_Trans_Benjamin_Jowett.pdf>.

Posted by: Kelly Scott at September 24, 2013 08:56 PM

Stephanie gilbert
Dr. Hobbs
Eng-210Cl- Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Love

Common love: Is that of two people abusing the word love. For instance, when Pausanias starts talking about love he is saying that there is more than one love. And instead there are two commonly, and heaveanly. However, which one more or less is the right one should be explored. He gives an example, “the drinking party is neither more or less good nor bad; but the parties themselves, or in this case the acts of “love,” can turn-out that way considering whoever is performing them (Plato, translated by: Jowett ).” Heavenly Love: Is that of the soul devoted to using the word love in the proper way regarding religious text's. As Pausanias continues by saying that “When well-done they are good, and when wrongly done they are evil and in like manner not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose is noble and worthy of praise." Siddhartha and Kamala’s love is Common love, because although Siddhartha has made love to her he still does not love her. Kamala I think loves him heavenly but Siddhartha does not. She even says, “At some time, when I’ll be older, I’d want to bear your child. (Hesse, Pg. 54)” Yet he does not see it till later on in the book, when she is no longer with him and his child wants to be a robber or a thief then he realizes that he loved them but by then he is an old man.

Works Cited

Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Charleston: Simon and Brown, 2012.

Jowett, Benjamin. Symposium. Plato, 360 BC.

Posted by: Stephanie gilbert at September 24, 2013 09:01 PM

Allison Knipe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Question: 1. Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the
characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Lover and Beloved, first proposed by Phaedrus, means the giver and the taker. This means one half of the relationship is more into the other person kind of yet they both love each other. The lover gives love and the beloved receives the love. In Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse, Govinda and Siddhartha have this sort of relationship. In the beginning of the story, Govinda admires Siddhartha and wants to follow him. At the time, Siddhartha did not know what love was and he embarked to seek knowledge. In the end of the story, Siddhartha realizes that Govinda loved him all along. He states, "You, oh venerable one, are perhaps indeed a searcher, because, striving for your goal, there are many things you don't see, which are directly in front of your eyes" (Hesse 98). He explains this because he knows that he went searching for nothing. In this case, Govinda is the lover and Siddhartha is the beloved. Govinda even calls him beloved when he says, "I see, beloved, that you have found peace" (Hesse 104). Siddhartha finally realizes that Govinda is the one who loves him.


Works Cited:
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha;. N.p.: Simon & Brown, 2012. Print.
Jowett, Benjamin. "Symposium by Plato." N.p., 7 Nov. 2008. Web.

Posted by: Allison Knipe at September 24, 2013 09:05 PM

Maria Benkirane
Dr. Hobbs

ENG 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature

24 September 2013

Part II of Test/Quiz #1

Question #3-

In Plato’s Symposium, Pausanias makes a claim about the difference between common love and heavenly love. First, Pausanias claims that love is neither good nor bad and it all depends on how it is used. He claims that heavenly love is better than commonly love because commonly love is only someone's attraction to the body and that is wrong. Heavenly love is the attraction to someone due to their brain not simply to their physical attributes. When it is commonly love, they can either be attracted to a women or to a boy, favoring the less intelligent, "The Love who is the offspring of the common Aphrodite is essentially common, and has no discrimination, being such as the meaner sort of men feel, and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul-the most foolish beings are the objects of this love which desires only to gain an end, but never thinks of accomplishing the end nobly, and therefore does good and evil quite indiscriminate" (Jowett 7). Pausanias also favors the heavenly love because he said that it is only felt towards a boy that is growing up; therefore, their intelligence is also in the process of flourishing. Love that is not after the goal of gaining wisdom is wrong and unacceptable, and they should be punished for such actions.

In the case of Govinda and Siddhartha, both the heavenly and the common love exist from the two opposite characters. Siddhartha loves Govinda through common love, while Govinda feels more of the heavenly love towards Siddhartha. When Siddhartha and Govinda part their ways during their journey, he had a dream that explained the physical attraction he has towards Govinda. He was speaking to him with a sad face and says, “Why have you forsaken me? At this, he embraced Govinda, wrapped his arms around him, and as he was pulling him close to his chest and kissed him, it was not Govinda anymore, but a woman and a full breast, but a woman and a full breast popped out of the women's dress" (Hess 37). This passage might also reflect a special kind of love that can also be considered attraction, or the commonly love according to Pausanias. However, Govinda has always been the number 1 supporter of Siddhartha. He always believed that Siddhartha was smart and will someday achieve something great. Govinda is attracted to the wisdom of Siddhartha and feels that he will teach him great stuff if he follows him. When they were among the Samanas, Govinda says to Siddhartha, "You'll be a great Samana, Siddhartha. Quickly, you've leaned every exercise, often the old Samanas have admired you, one day, you'll be a holy man, oh Siddhartha. Govinda always believed in Siddhartha and his wisdom. Even after they chose different paths and then met again, Govinda came to Siddhartha and asked him to teach him everything about how to reach enlightenment the way he did. Siddhartha asks Govinda to bow down and kiss his forehead. As he did, Govinda’s thoughts went from image to image and miraculous things happened: "He saw many faces, a long sequence, a flowing river of faces, of hundreds of thousand which all came and disappeared and yet all seemed to be there simultaneously [ . . . ] Govinda bowed; tears he knew nothing of, ran down his old face; like a fire burnt the feelings of the most intimate love" (106). Both the common love and the heavenly love are present in their relationship, each character expressing it differently, completing one another as a whole. This is significant to the story because love is a very important theme in the book. The different characters that Siddhartha encounters during his journey all represent the kinds of love that Pausanias spoke about. All the characters and love that that each held in Siddhartha’s heart were all part and the reason of the success in his great journey towards enlightenment.

Citations:

Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Charleston, SC]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.

Jowett, Benjamin. 360 BC SYMPOSIUM by Plato. N.p.: n.p., n.d. PDF.

Posted by: maria benkirane at September 24, 2013 09:09 PM

Lindsey Thilmony
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire of Literature
24 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must
first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use
passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for
one of these types of love apples to the relationship between the characters Govinda and
Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view,
i.e., would one character see the love as vulgar/common and the other as chaste/heavenly?
If so, why is this significant to the story?

Answer: The discussion of commonly love and heavenly in Plato’s Symposium comes from Pausanias’ claim. His definition of commonly love is immature love. His definition of heavenly love is a committed love. There are two different types of love, and the second is of more importance as Pausanias states, “Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy or praise” (Jowlett 7). In Siddhartha, there were two similar themes of love, commonly love demonstrated as selfish or material love. Heavenly love represented the love Siddhartha had for his son. Siddhartha explains selfish love as he experienced it, “His face was still smarter and more spiritual than others, but it rarely laughed, and assumed one after another, those features which are so often found in the faces of rich people, those features of discontent, of sickliness, or ill-humour, of sloth, of lack of love” (Hesse 56). Govinda and Siddhartha’s relationship is most like heavenly love. Throughout the entire story, they encountered each other in the transitions of their lives. They saw how they progressed and reached their goals in life. They also saw each other at their worst of times. This relationship is similar to a committed marriage. During their trials, they were both there for one another, gave each other advice, and were glad for what the other chose for their life.

Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. New York: Modern Library. 1996. Digital.

Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Trans. W. K. Marriot. South Carolina: Simon & Brown. 2012. Print.

Posted by: Lindsey Thilmony at September 24, 2013 09:17 PM

Aye’Kendria George
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must
first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use
passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for
one of these types of love applies to the relationship between the characters Kamala and
Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the
relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view,
i.e., would one characters see the love as common and the other as heavenly? If so, why is
this significant to the story?
Answer: Common love is the love of the body also known as materialism, which is basic love. Common love is the love of the outside not so much, about what is inside. You are in love with the physical attributes of the person. Heavenly Love is the love of the soul also known as natural love, which is the deep part of love. Heavenly Love is the love of person insides you can careless about the physical attraction. If you have deep connection with someone and love him or her from within, I think that is way more than common love. The relationship between Kamala and Siddhartha could go either way depending of the character point of view. Looking from Siddhartha side it would be more so heavenly love because he really cared and adored Kamala, love was something new to him. Kamala would be more so common love she wasn’t really in to him, she was looking for how he could benefit her.

Posted by: Aye'Kendria George at September 24, 2013 09:24 PM

Joe Rulli
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Part 2 of Test/ Quiz #1

Question 1. Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato's Symposium, in Herman Hesse's Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language. Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha. Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Phaedrus is the first to speech in Plato's Symposium, and he talks about this idea of there being a lover and a beloved in a relationship between two people. Each person can be a lover and the beloved. The lover cares for the beloved so much, that he or she would do anything for them, even if it means putting themselves in danger. As Phaedrus says, "Love will make men dare to die for their beloved (Symposium). As for the relationship between Govinda and Siddhartha, Govinda is definitely the lover and Siddhartha the beloved. Through out the whole book you get the feeling that Govinda looked up to Siddhartha and wanted to be with him. He is always asking Siddhartha what he thinks, and always wants to travel with him and do what he wants to do. You first see this when Siddhartha decides to become a Samana and the night he goes to leave his home he finds Govinda outside ready to tag along with him, "You have come" Siddhartha said and smiled, "I have come," said Govinda" (Hesse 12). As for Siddhartha, he likes Govinda but you get the sense that Siddhartha would rather be on his own and venture out into the world to learn his own lessons. This is significant to the story in a couple ways, one is when Govinda decides to stay with The Buddha instead of traveling on with Siddhartha. This shows how powerful The Buddha was. It is most significant at the end of the story when Govinda and Siddhartha find each other has old men, after many years of not seeing one another. Siddhartha is on his last breathe, and Govinda is still asking advice from Siddhartha and what he learned through out his life.

I used the W.K. Marriott version of Siddhartha and the ebook version of Symposium.

Posted by: Joe Rulli at September 24, 2013 09:33 PM

Joe Rulli
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013


Question 1. Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato's Symposium, in Herman Hesse's Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language. Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha. Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Phaedrus is the first to speech in Plato's Symposium, and he talks about this idea of there being a lover and a beloved in a relationship between two people. Each person can be a lover and the beloved. The lover cares for the beloved so much, that he or she would do anything for them, even if it means putting themselves in danger. As Phaedrus says, "Love will make men dare to die for their beloved (Symposium). As for the relationship between Govinda and Siddhartha, Govinda is definitely the lover and Siddhartha the beloved. Through out the whole book you get the feeling that Govinda looked up to Siddhartha and wanted to be with him. He is always asking Siddhartha what he thinks, and always wants to travel with him and do what he wants to do. You first see this when Siddhartha decides to become a Samana and the night he goes to leave his home he finds Govinda outside ready to tag along with him, "You have come" Siddhartha said and smiled, "I have come," said Govinda" (Hesse 12). As for Siddhartha, he likes Govinda but you get the sense that Siddhartha would rather be on his own and venture out into the world to learn his own lessons. This is significant to the story in a couple ways, one is when Govinda decides to stay with The Buddha instead of traveling on with Siddhartha. This shows how powerful The Buddha was. It is most significant at the end of the story when Govinda and Siddhartha find each other has old men, after many years of not seeing one another. Siddhartha is on his last breathe, and Govinda is still asking advice from Siddhartha and what he learned through out his life.

I used the W.K. Marriott version of Siddhartha and the ebook version of Symposium.

Posted by: Joe Rulli at September 24, 2013 09:34 PM

Jalisa Lowe
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
25 September 2013

Question: In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/ voice (use passages from the Symposium text, if necessary, to support your definition). Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?

Answer: Narcissism is the act of “love of or sexual desire for one’s own body” (Merriam-Webster). In Plato’s Symposium, Agathon’s homage to Eros he brags about his own attributes stating, “he is the youngest, and of his youth he is himself the witness, fleeing out of the way of age, who is swift enough, swifter truly than most of us like:-Love hates him and will not come near him; but youth and love live and move together-like to like, as the proverb says” (Jowett). Like Agathon in Plato’s Symposium, Siddhartha is very narcissistic in the novel Siddhartha. At the beginning of the novel, Siddhartha speaks of himself in the third person stating, “Love touched the hearts of the Brahman’s young daughters when Siddhartha walked through the lanes of the town with the luminous forehead, with the eye of a king, with his slim hips” (Hesse 5). Growing up as a young handsome son of a Brahmin, Siddhartha thought highly of himself. In the Hindu society, Brahmin’s consisted of the highest class. All the towns’ people admired Siddhartha, and many saw him as God-like; therefore, Siddhartha saw himself as a god. Govinda, Siddhartha’s best friend seemed to admire him the most according to Siddhartha. Siddhartha stated, “He loved Siddhartha’s eye and sweet voice, he loved his walk and the perfect decency of his movements, he loved everything Siddhartha did” (Hesse 5). Siddhartha liked the fact that Govinda looked up to him. In a sense, he felt he was above Govinda. When they decided to part ways Siddhartha expressed, “you’ve always walked one step behind me. Often I have thought: Won’t Govinda for once also take a step by himself, without me, out of his own soul” (Hesse 25). None of the other characters in Siddhartha seemed to be guilty of narcissism, except Siddhartha.

Hesse , Hermann. Siddhartha. Simon & Brown, 2012. Print.
Jowett, Benjamin. Symposium . Web.
"Merriam-Webster ." Dictionary and Thesaurus . Merriam-Webster incorporated , n.d. Web. 24 Sep 2013.

Posted by: Jalisa Lowe at September 24, 2013 09:44 PM

Morgan Salter
Dr. Hobbs
English 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How does the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model.
Answer: Diotima, one of Socrates’ greatest teachers, showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. She explained that love is a patterned series of changing ideas and views of love until one ultimately acquires an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is beautiful. In Hesse’s Siddhartha the protagonist’s, Siddhartha’s, understanding of love changes throughout the course of the story. In the Symposium, Socrates concludes his speech with the finite definition that love is, in his opinion, the desire for wisdom. Siddhartha directly embodies this belief of love through the story of his lifelong quest for wisdom in efforts of reaching enlightenment. In the beginning, similar to Diotima’s model, Siddhartha studies control of his body and physical desires as a method of enlightenment. When this fails him, he ventures out to learn the ways of love from courtesan, Kamala. This resembles Diotima’s model in which Siddhartha is now learning an appreciation of all other bodies. Finally, he put his faith in himself, searching as he “earnestly wished to know more of himself, to have quiet, to be dead” (Hesse 68). It is when he leaves his lessons and teachings behind and, as Diotima expresses, comes to a point in which he has reached a deep appreciation of all wisdom that he finally reaches enlightenment. Through his quest for wisdom, Siddhartha demonstrates Diotima’s model of the love process.

Work Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and Sherab Chödzin. Siddhartha: A New Translation. Boston: Shambhala, 2002. Print.
Benardete, Seth, trans. Plato's Symposium. N.p.: n.p., n.d. Internet Archive. 1986. Web. 24 Sept. 2013.

Posted by: Morgan Salter at September 24, 2013 09:46 PM

Morgan Salter
Dr. Hobbs
English 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How does the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model.
Answer: Diotima, one of Socrates’ greatest teachers, showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. She explained that love is a patterned series of changing ideas and views of love until one ultimately acquires an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is beautiful. In Hesse’s Siddhartha the protagonist’s, Siddhartha’s, understanding of love changes throughout the course of the story. In the Symposium, Socrates concludes his speech with the finite definition that love is, in his opinion, the desire for wisdom. Siddhartha directly embodies this belief of love through the story of his lifelong quest for wisdom in efforts of reaching enlightenment. In the beginning, similar to Diotima’s model, Siddhartha studies control of his body and physical desires as a method of enlightenment. When this fails him, he ventures out to learn the ways of love from courtesan, Kamala. This resembles Diotima’s model in which Siddhartha is now learning an appreciation of all other bodies. Finally, he put his faith in himself, searching as he “earnestly wished to know more of himself, to have quiet, to be dead” (Hesse 68). It is when he leaves his lessons and teachings behind and, as Diotima expresses, comes to a point in which he has reached a deep appreciation of all wisdom that he finally reaches enlightenment. Through his quest for wisdom, Siddhartha demonstrates Diotima’s model of the love process.

Work Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and Sherab Chödzin. Siddhartha: A New Translation. Boston: Shambhala, 2002. Print.
Benardete, Seth, trans. Plato's Symposium. N.p.: n.p., n.d. Internet Archive. 1986. Web. 24 Sept. 2013.

Posted by: Morgan Salter at September 24, 2013 09:46 PM

McKenzie Burns
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
24 September 2013

I am using the Benardete translation

Question #2: Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato's Symposium, in Herman Hesse's Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language. Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Kamala and Siddhartha. Which character plays which role in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Answer:The terms lover is someone who is doing the loving. Beloved is someone who is being loved. "For a lover, a beloved" (Benardete 240). In Siddhartha, Siddhartha is the lover at the beginning of their relationship because once he first sees Kamala, he falls in love with her. He asks her how he can become better and what he has to do in order for her to love him. Kamala is the beloved because she is not really doing anything, Siddhartha is doing all of the work in the relationhip and is wanting to change for her. Kamala does not change her ways in anything. As soon as Siddhartha changes and becomes rich and plays the part they switch roles. Kamala turns into the lover and Siddhartha becomes the beloved. This is significant in the story because it shows that when there is a lover there has to be a beloved, as stated in Plato's Symposium.

Posted by: McKenzie Burns at September 24, 2013 09:55 PM

Erica Esqueda
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
24 September 2013
Essay Portion of Test/Quiz 1
Question 1: Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?
After reading the “Symposium,” my understanding of Lover and Beloved is the following: Lover is the one who possesses all the wisdom, and the beloved is the one who seeks to acquire the wisdom from the lover, “the lover is of a nobler and diviner nature,” (Symposium, Benjamin Jowett translation). In Siddhartha, Govinda would be the beloved and Siddhartha, the lover. Siddhartha possesses an amount of wisdom that Govinda is always seeking; however, it takes him a much longer time to find this wisdom and fulfill his goal to become enlightened. In the end of Siddhartha, when Govinda finds Siddhartha once again, he asks him, “Have you not discovered certain knowledge yourself that has helped you to live? It would give me great pleasure if you would tell me something about this” (Hesse 142). This further demonstrates that Govinda was the beloved in Siddhartha because he was always seeking the advice of Siddhartha, and although he was capable of finding full enlightenment on his own, he always wanted the support of his lover, Siddhartha. Their relationship as lover and beloved is significant because it shows that even though they may have been on different levels of insightful thinking; their bond was stronger than just that of their mental state. Their relationship as lover and beloved allowed them to help each other and be good friends, which was a great part of the story.

Posted by: Erica Esqueda at September 24, 2013 10:23 PM

Vanessa Parkin Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02 24 September 2013

Question 4

Answer:

Siddhartha and Kamala share a common love of the body. Pausanias explains, “ The Love who is the offspring of the common Aphrodite is essentially common, and has no discrimination, being such as the meaner sort of men feel, and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul-the most foolish beings are the objects of this love which desires only to gain an end, but never thinks of accomplishing the end nobly, and therefore does good and evil quite indiscriminately” (Plato 7). During this time, Siddhartha and Kamala both lived in the material world and only shared a physical and sexual attraction. Kamala explains to Siddhartha, “You are the best lover, I ever saw. You’re stronger than others, more supple, more willing. You’ve learned by art well, Siddhartha.” Although Kamala is a courtesan, she does admire his mind. She is intrigued by the Buddha and clings to Siddhartha’s spiritual character. Kamala then goes on to say, “ At some time, when I’ll be older, I’d want to bear your child. And yet, my dear, You’ve remained a Samana, and yet you do not love me, You love nobody. Isn’t that so?”. Siddhartha replies, “ It might very well be so, I am like you, You also do not love – how else could you practice love as a craft? Perhaps, people of our kind can’t love” (Hesse, Siddhartha Simon & Brown 54).
Kamala and Siddhartha do not complete each other. Both are two of the same. Maybe they both seek love, but they do not contain qualities that the other wishes to find in another. Years pass, and as Siddhartha watches over dying Kamala as he lays her to rest his emotions overcome him, “Deeply he felt, more deeply than ever before, in this hour, the indestructibility of every life, the eternity of every moment” (Hesse, Siddhartha Simon & Brown 81). Siddhartha has transformed through many levels during the years they spent apart, and has gained a bigger understanding of love. Siddhartha feels much more connected to Kamala than Kalama did to him. A sacred Heavenly love proposed by Pausanias is love of the soul. This love is a deeper, stronger, and purer love. It goes beyond words, and physical appearances. Kamala and Siddhartha did not experience this with each other.

Posted by: Vanessa Parkin at September 24, 2013 10:38 PM

Kerriann Salatti
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first being by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice. Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love apply to the relationship between the characters Kamala and Siddhartha . Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view. If so, why is this significant to the story?

Answer: The profane common love is the love of the body. It is considered the desire and want of another person. The sacred heavenly love is the love of soul, which is considered the deeper spiritual love of another person. Kamala and Siddhartha both show a common love which is more physical but Siddhartha also shows a heavily love for Kamala. A quote said by Siddhartha was “how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 51). It can be said that they are soul mates because they complete one another. He tells Kamala “you are like me, you are different from most people” (Hesse 53). In the symposium they talk about how humans were made up to two people with twice the mount of body parts and then they were split down the middle and people would have to search for their other half. The problem between Siddhartha and Kamala is that they both do not love emotionally other a physical and mental love. (Hesse 54) This causes them to not have an emotional love but they share the same connection of not being able to love another person. If their relationship was labeled differently I don’t think it would change the story because they have a mutual viewpoint on not being able to have an emotional love for another person. Through out the story they do go back and forth on who loves the other one more there’s not a point that they both show a mutual love.

Posted by: Kerriann Salatti at September 24, 2013 10:39 PM

Deirdre Rowan
Dr. Hobbs
English 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September, 2013

Test/Quiz #1, Question 6
Discuss how the concept of love as a biochemical “balance,” as first proposed by
Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium, is connected to the following idea in Hermann Hesse’s
Siddhartha: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. You
must first begin by articulating the particulars of Eryximachus’s theory and then
expressing them in your own language/voice. Then show how the idea of balance and peace of mind applies to the love felt
by the characters Kamala and Siddhartha in their relationship. Are these characters really “balanced”? Do these
characters truly have “peace of mind”? If so, why is this significant to the story? If not,
what does this say about Eryximachus’s theory?

In Plato’s Symposium, the character Eryximachus is a doctor, so when he describes the concept of love, he sees it as a biochemical “balance”; there is a fit side and a sick side. In order to remain in excellent health, the fit side must be cared for while the sick side must be ignored. As he puts it, “There are in the human body these two kinds of love [. . . ] the desire of the healthy is one, and the desire of the diseased is another-so too in the body the good and healthy elements are to be indulged, and the bad elements and the elements of disease are not to be indulged, but discouraged (Symposium).”

This idea seems to come into play in Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse. The protagonist Siddhartha spends years engaging in the art of love with the courtesan Kamala; he gives her money and material things while she in return offers her body for sexual pleasure. They are able to stay together because as Kamala and Siddhartha connect physically, they also feed their intellectual and emotional appetites. Together they not only satisfy their sexual needs, but also enjoy a unique intrapersonal relationship, achieving piece of mind:

“He visited the beautiful Kamala regularly, learned the art of love in which, more than in anything else, giving and taking become one. He talked with her, learned from her, gave her advice, received advice. She understood him better than Govinda had once done. She was more like him. Once he said to her:

“…[I]nside of you, there is a stillness and sanctuary to which you can retreat at any time and be yourself, just as I can. Few people have that capacity and yet everyone could have it (Hesse 71-72).”
However, sexual intercourse soon becomes stale; Siddhartha and Kamala go through the motions without any emotional involvement. They realize that real love has been eluding them and it cannot be practiced as an art. Reflecting on their actions over the years, Siddhartha recognizes that that piece of mind that he shared with Kamala has faded with time with the statement “Perhaps people like us cannot love. (Hesse 73).” This contradicts Eryximachus’ philosophy of a biochemical balance: Siddhartha and Kamala are doing the same thing for years, so they should still be achieving piece of mind. Either Eryximachus’ theory is false in this situation or Siddhartha and Kamala are doing wrong.

Posted by: Deirdre Rowan at September 24, 2013 10:55 PM

Matt Nicholson-Lewis
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01
24 September 2013

Take home test:

Question #9: In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is an erotic teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to say, he changed teachers frequently. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by Plato’s symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that character/ concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s symposium, which of the speakers might it empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover teacher (not Kamala), and why?

Siddhartha encounters many people throughout his journey to enlightenment. Kamala is his obvious teacher of love, however, each of the people he meets shows him something different about love. One person who has a big impact on his thoughts of love was Vasudeva. He is a simple man who lives by the river and claims that the river can help Siddhartha answer his questions. Siddhartha is taken in by Vasudeva, and this is shown when Hesse states “Siddhartha was more keenly aware than ever of Vasudeva’s attentiveness. He felt his troubles, his anxieties and his secret hopes flow across him and then return again” (133). This is showing his fixation with Vasudeva. With everyone else he meets he finds flaws in their arguments and decides that he can do better by himself, but with Vasudeva he finds someone who is enlightened and not trying to preach his methods to others, but will offer advice and his opinion when asked. This leads to Siddhartha loving Vasudeva “that he was God Himself, that he was eternity Itself” (Hesse 133). This quote explains that Siddhartha finally truly believes in someone’s message. From this he starts to learn from the river that Vasudeva carries people across, and eventually achieves enlightenment.
If Vasudea was to attend the symposium he would be most like Socrates. This is because of many reasons. The first being that Vasudeva is enlightened, and Socrates can easily be considered enlightened, as he has the same ability as Vasudeva to be listen to people and truly understand and sympathize with what they are saying. Evidence for this is shown when Socrates says “First I said to her in nearly the same words which he used to me” (Jowett). This shows that Socrates has listened intently to Agathon, just as Vasudeva did to Siddhartha. These traits help them when they speak as they can both respond to a point that a person has made and analyze it in-depth rather than just stating their opinion without caring what the person before them said.

Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Charleston, SC]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.


Jowett, Benjamin. 360 BC SYMPOSIUM by Plato. N.p.: n.p., n.d. PDF.

Posted by: Matt Nicholson-Lewis at September 24, 2013 11:13 PM

Anastasia Delgado
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
24 September 2013

9. In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is as an erotic
teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to
say, he changed teachers frequently. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by Plato’s
Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have
to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha
about love? If that same character/concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s
symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might it empathize with the most? In
other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover
teacher (not Kamala), and why?

The most obvious love that is described in the novel is the love between Govinda and Siddhartha. They have a friendship love that can only two best friends can understand. They care for each other in the sense that they respect each other’s opinion and decisions. We see this when Govinda parts with Siddhartha to follow the Illustrious one. Although later on in the novel he feels like he needs Govinda by his side, they are able to effectively stand by each other and be there when it is necessary. When Govinda finds Siddhartha sleeping by the tree, he has the urge to stand by his side and wait for him to awake even though he did not realize it was Siddhartha. Once they were reunited, they had the same friendship love. Another kind of love clearly demonstrated in the novel is Siddhartha’s love for himself. In the chapter titled “Awakening,” Siddhartha experiences a different kind of love. Love for himself. He learns that he can only really learn from himself. Moreover, he needs to respect himself more that his lessons will come from within. Overall, it is a common love that is experienced most in the novel Siddhartha. Aside from the love he experiences from Kamala.

Posted by: Anastasia Delgado at September 24, 2013 11:20 PM

Lauren Rhodes
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
Dr. Hobbs
24 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the lover and the beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato's Symposium, in Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/ voice (use passages from the text to support you definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this important.

To me, a lover is someone who finds the beautiful and good in the beloved. The lover "loves" the beloved. The beloved is the person who is being loved by the lover. In my opinion, the lover has more to give to the beloved. The lover is willing to do anything for the person they claim that they love. They would never want to hurt or disrespect the person that they "beloved". As Phaedrus claims in Plato's Symposium "A lover is a more divine thing than a beloved, for he has the god within him" (Benardete 241). He then goes on to say "lovers are the only ones who are willing to die for the sake of another" (Benardete 240). Phaedrus also explains how the lovers and beloved would have no problem living together. He explains that they would never want to cause harm or shame to the person that they love. They just want to honor and protect them. He says "if there were any possibility that a city or an army could be composed of lovers and beloveds, then there could be no better way for them to manage their own city; for they would abstain from all that is shameful and be filled with love of honor before one another." (Benardete 240)

In the book Siddhartha, Siddhartha is the lover while kamala is the beloved. From the very beginning Siddhartha falls for Kamala. He claims that she is "the first woman to whom Siddhartha has spoken without lowered eyes. Never again will I lower my eyes when I meet a beautiful woman" (Hesse 53). Siddhartha continues to compliment Kamala by saying how beautiful she is. In return, Kamala laughs at him. She explains how she would never be caught with a Samana. Kamala explained that if Siddhartha changes then she would consider being both his friend and teacher. Kamala says to Siddhartha "He must have clothes, fine clothes, and shoes, fine shoes, and plenty of money in his purse and presents for Kamala." (Hesse 54) Siddhartha does just that. He changes whom he is completely so he could be around Kamala. Siddhartha learns the way of the business man and earns the friendship of Kamala. We then learn that Kamala has fallen for Siddhartha. She says "You are the best lover I ever had [. . .] You are stronger than others, more supple, more willing. You have learned my art well, Siddhartha. Someday I will have a child by you." (Hesse 73) Later on in the story we learn that Kamala has given birth to Siddhartha's son and passes away due to a snake bite on the way to see Gotama. While she was passing, Siddhartha is there beside her. He holds her hand while she passes, and at that moment they claim they both found peace. Siddhartha never stops loving Kamala. He gave up everything for his beloved. Siddhartha changed his life around for her; he learned what it was like to love a woman, during a period of time he lived to please Kamala, and he was able to help her find peace. They found peace in each other. Siddhartha was the spiritual character, and even though neither one of them claimed to have "loved" each other, we can tell that Siddhartha has found both the beautiful and good in Kamala.

Benardete, Seth. "Plato Symposium." N.p., 1984. Web. 24 Sep 2013. .

Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. New York: New Directions, 1951. Print.

Posted by: Lauren Rhodes at September 24, 2013 11:29 PM

Jordan Dadez
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
24 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the lover and the beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, and in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Answer: In Plato’s Symposium, Phaedrus defines two roles in love. There is a lover, and there is a beloved. Obviously, the lover is giving the love while the beloved is receiving it. Phaedrus states, “And greatly as the gods honour the virtue of love, still the return of love on the part of the beloved to the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them, for the lover is more divine; because he is inspired by God” (Plato 6). The lover is held in a higher esteem by the gods due to because his ability to give love without request is divine. These two roles can be seen in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Despite the fact that their kind of love is not a romantic love and is mainly sexual, Phaedrus’ roles still apply because there is one who is giving and one who is taking. Kamala is the lover, as she is teaching Siddhartha the art of making love. Siddhartha is the beloved because he is receiving knowledge on a subject that he knows nothing about. From the very beginning of their relationship, the roles are defined in such a manner. Siddhartha does so by saying, “[. . . ] I would like to ask you to be my friend and teacher, for I know nothing yet of that art which you have mastered in the highest degree” (Hesse 41). The establishment of these roles is significant to the story because Kamala helps Siddhartha assimilate himself into the childlike people’s culture and ultimately realize that he is on the wrong path to finding himself.

Works Cited:

Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Trans. W. K. Marriott. Charleston, Simon & Brown: 2012. Print.

Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. Athens, 360 BC. PDF.

Posted by: Jordan Dadez at September 24, 2013 11:48 PM

Dana DeLosa
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01: Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Exam Question One: “Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms
and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support
your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the
characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your
claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?”

Answer: According to Phaedrus, a dynamic relationship exists between the lover and the beloved; he utilizes the Greek myth of Achilles and Patroclus to portray his definitions of each. Phaedrus describes the beloved as “the fairer and beardless” whereas the lover “is more divine” and wiser (Plato 6). The myth of Achilles and Patroclus applies to these definitions because Achilles is the younger lover of the older Patroclus who provides Achilles with his wisdom. The Gods describe the sacrifice Achilles makes in order to save Patroclus as honorable because the love returned by the beloved to the lover “is admired and valued and rewarded” (Plato 6). In Siddhartha, Herman Hesse creates a dynamic love similar to this between the protagonist, Siddhartha and his companion Govinda; however, in the beginning of the novel Siddhartha is not cognizant of his love for Govinda. Siddhartha characterizes the lover archetype because he challenges the ideals forced upon him from the teachers in his life; contrastingly Govinda accepts them because he needs their wisdom and experience. This ideal becomes evident during their time spent together before Siddhartha departs from Gotama’s teachings; when Siddhartha tells Govinda “Often I have thought: Won’t Govinda for once also take a step by himself” (Hesse 25). Once Siddhartha left the Buddha, Govinda willingly followed Gotama until he died. Lost, Govinda heard of “an old ferryman, who lived one day’s journey away by the river, and who was regarded as a wise man by many” (Hesse 97). Driven by this knowledge, Govinda journeyed to the river to the wise ferryman. Even after spending their life apart, Govinda still yields to Siddhartha’s wisdom and desires for Siddhartha to tell him “certain teachings, which are you own and which help you to live”(Hesse 99). Their relationship continually depends on Siddhartha imparting his wisdom on the less experienced and knowledgeable Govinda.

Works Cited
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Trans. W.K. Marriott. South Carolina: Simon & Brown, 2012. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. New York: Modern Library. 1996. Digital.

Posted by: Dana DeLosa at September 24, 2013 11:49 PM

Connor Schaefer
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL- CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Answer: In Siddhartha, I believe that there are two characters that follow the pattern Diotima describes in The Symposium. The two characters are Siddhartha and Govinda. Siddhartha follows the pattern more than Govinda, but there are parts of the pattern that Govinda also follows. I believe Govinda follows the part when Diotima talks about having an attraction to one’s wisdom and then eventually moves to the appreciation of all wisdom. In the beginning of the book, Govinda follows Siddhartha’s every move. He even follows him to learn more knowledge. At this point of the story, Govinda is focusing on Siddhartha’s interests in wisdom. After Siddhartha leaves Govinda behind, he forces himself to expand his mind to other wisdom that he would not have done if he stayed with Siddhartha. Even though Govinda does not fully follow the path that Diotima talks about, I believe he does follow part of it.

Siddhartha does have this pattern throughout the story. The first step of the pattern is that the lover discovers the beauty. Siddhartha believes he is very intelligent, and I would argue that Siddhartha could be in love with himself in the beginning of the book. He seeks knowledge to make him the most knowledgeable human. I think the next step in Diotima’s pattern is a combination of the third step of her pattern. Siddhartha seeks the beauty of others and the wisdom of one individual all in one part of the book. When Siddhartha meets Kamala, he is in love with her beauty, and he is searching for her wisdom. That is why I think those two steps in the pattern are combinations of both. Hesse even states that Siddhartha thinks she is beautiful by saying, “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 39). Siddhartha knows she is very beautiful, so this scene could be Siddhartha seeing all bodies as beautiful. Siddhartha thinks Kamala is beautiful, but he also wants to gain wisdom from her. Siddhartha says, “To tell you this and to thank you for being so beautiful. And if it doesn’t displease you, Kamala, I would like to ask you to be my friend and teacher, for I know nothing of that art which you have mastered in the highest degree” (Hesse 41). In the quote, Siddhartha is asking Kamala if she can teach him. Siddhartha is asking Kamala for wisdom. This scene can relate to Diotima’s thought of someone would move on to one person’s attraction of wisdom. The last part of Diotima’s described pattern is the appreciation of all wisdom. This occurs when Siddhartha and the Ferryman talk about listening to the river. At that moment, Siddhartha listens to the river and discovers numerous things from the river. He learns that his father has been waiting for him to come home and he has to let his own son go. The Ferryman makes Siddhartha feel whole and complete. If Siddhartha is whole and complete, that means that he has embraced all wisdom. Siddhartha and Govinda both follow Diotima’s description of the pattern, but Siddhartha follows the pattern more.

Work Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Hollywood, FL]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.

Posted by: Connor Schaefer at September 24, 2013 11:53 PM

Erica Bodden
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013


Question: In the sense of love’s meanings as expressed by Plato’s Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that same character/ concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the Symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover teacher (not Kamala), and why?

Answer: In Herman Hesse Siddhartha, we learned that Siddhartha is a young boy seeking all the knowledge the world has to offer. Wisdom, knowledge, and reaching Nirvana are three main components that drove Siddhartha through his spiritual journey. On this journey, Siddhartha happened to cross paths with the beautiful courtesan Kamala. Through her teachings, Siddhartha discovered love. However, the love she taught him was purely shallow and almost destroyed his life, “full of misery, full of death, there was nothing left in this world which could have attracted him, given him joy, given him comfort” (Hesse, 62). The world Kamala introduced him to was meant for the childlike people who loved money and gambling. This world was not meant for a Samana. Many years pasted before Siddhartha was finally able to escape this childlike world. The one thing that saved his life was the river. The river awoke life inside Siddhartha again. The river whispered the true meaning of life and love to Siddhartha. The ferryman also learnt the secret language of the river and shared that knowledge with Siddhartha. He told him “Love this water! Stay near it! Learn from it” (Hesse, 72).
If the river were to hypothetically attend Plato’s Symposium, it would correlate best with Eryxumachus’s concept of love. Unlike Pausanias, Erymiachus did not place a limit on how love can be expressed. Love can be expressed not only through humans but also in animals and nature. Eryximachus said, “Love is expressed in the bodily responses of plants and animals” (Benjamin Jowett). The river is nature at its purest form. The river taught Siddhartha to love the world in moderation.

Bibliography
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. 2012 ed. N.p.: Simon & Brown, n.d. Print.

"The Internet Classics Archive | Symposium by Plato." The Internet Classics Archive | Symposium by Plato. N.p., n.d. Web. 24 Sept. 2013.

Posted by: Erica Bodden at September 24, 2013 11:56 PM

Jasmine Charlton
Dr. Lee. B Hobbs.
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
23 September 2013

Question: “Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/ voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions.} Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim.) Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?

Answer: Through reading the symposium, I have learned that the lover is usually the person yearning after or longing for the beloved. The Lover is also the giver of the love who would go to the ends of the earth to get the attention and begin a courtship with the beloved, which makes them the most valuable person in the relationship. The Lover want to be seen as the ideal candidate to the beloved so they, “ would be ashamed to be seen by the beloved doing any suffering any cowardly or mean act” (Jowett). On the other hand, the beloved is the recipient of the love they are the ones being chased, pampered, and taken care of from the lover. The Beloved is usually seen as the most beautiful, and wise in the eyes of the lover. An example of this love can be how, “Palsaneus is the lover and Agathon is the beloved”(Hobbs). When you compare Phaedrus’ claim to the story of Siddhartha you will see that Govinda and Siddhartha are in one of these relationships. The book does not show whether their relationship goes on further than friendship, but in this circumstance, Govinda would be the lover and Siddhartha would be the beloved. Through out the W. K. Marriott translation it shows you how much Govinda admired and loved Siddhartha when it said, “But more than all the others he was loved by Govinda, his friend, the son of a Brahman”(Hesse 5). The story also expressed all that Govinda admired about Siddhartha, which is his, “ eyes, sweet voice, his walk, the perfect decency of his movements, his spirit, his fiery thoughts, his ardent will, and his high calling”(Hesse 5). Although their relationship was not based on the Erotic Love, it still was based on Friendship and Brotherly Love. Just like the Orpheus went down to Hades to be re-united with his wife, Govinda was willing to leave his safe environment and follow Siddhartha blindly even if it meant they would be gone for a lifetime.

Works Cited

Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Trans. W. K. Marriott. 1922.
Hobbs, B. Lee. Symposium Jasmine Charlton. 16 September 2013.
Jowett, Benjamin. Symposium, by Plato.


Posted by: Jasmine Charlton at September 25, 2013 12:30 AM

Camila Pinzon
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
23 September 2013

Question 9:In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is as an erotic teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to say, he changed teachers frequesntly. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by Plato’s Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that same character/concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s Symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might it empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover teacher (not Kamala), and why?


Answer: Throughout Siddhartha’s travels, he met numerous people who served as his teachers along the way since Siddhartha was never fully satisfied with the knowledge he received from the multitude of teachers. In one instance, Siddhartha learns the universal understanding of life he has been searching for the majority of his life. He had finally reached Nirvana with the help and teachings of the River. “Siddhartha listened. [. . .] This song of a thousand voices, when he neither listened to the suffering nor the laughter, when he did not tie his soul to any particular voice he submerged his self into it” (Hesse 95).
Hypothetically, if the river was a human and to attend the symposium, it would most identify with the views of Socrates. Like the river, Socrates used the Socratic method forcing his students to find the answers they search for on their own by listening and thinking critically. For example, similar to Siddhartha, Agathon listened to everything Socrates proposed and discovered new answers on Love.
Work Cited: Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Hollywood, FL]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.

Posted by: Camila Pinzon at September 25, 2013 12:57 AM

Diana Shoemaker
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question:In his homage to Eros, Agathon michievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon's apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice (use passages from the Symposium text, if necessary, to support your definition). Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?

Answer:In both the Symposium and Siddhartha there are many examples of self-love which is thought to be “narcissism”. Narcissism in the Symposium can be seen through Agathon who believes he is superior to many because of his good looks and his young age. Narcissism essentially means someone who loves him or herself. Narcissism is when a person is into themself, and they think that they are very attractive whether it is physically or emotionally. Some may be more extreme and may almost seem obsessed with him or herself and then judge everyone based on comparing him or herself with another person. Narcissism may also be seen as being selfish and caring more about how they look and present themselves than others. Narcissist people usually seem conceited and understand that it is all about them. In Siddhartha, there are multiple characters who seem to be narcissistic in some ways. Two of the characters in Siddhartha that show signs of narcissism are Siddhartha and Kamala. Siddhartha shows narcissism after he sees Kamala for the first time. Siddhartha decided to go to a barber’s shop in the morning “he had his beard shaved off by the barber’s assistant. He also had his hair combed and rubbed with fine oil. Then he went to bathe in the river” (Hesse 43). He did these things so that Kamala would notice him because before he did not live for good looks, he lived simply. Kamala shows narcissism in another way by making it look as if she is one who is good enough to judge others. Kamala said about Siddhartha “No, he is not yet good enough. He must have clothes, fine clothes, and shoes, fine shoes, and plenty of money in his purse and presents for Kamala” (Hesse 45). Kamala does not believe that Siddhartha is good enough for her until he has the finest things. She believes that she is close to perfection, so she wants him to be good enough for how great she is. Kamala comes off as superior and arrogant. Narcissism is significant to the story of Siddhartha because Siddhartha becomes knowledgeable about what it is like to have nothing and what it is like to have some of the finest things. These experiences help Siddhartha learn about many aspects in life, which helps him reach his goal of enlightenment.

Hesse, Hermann. “Kamala.” Siddhartha;. [New York]:
New Directions, 1951. 43-45. Print.

Posted by: Diana Shoemaker at September 25, 2013 01:33 AM

Alexia Chambers
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and desire in literature CA02
24 September 2013
Question:
2. Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?
Answer:
I am using a version of the book translated by Gunther Olesch, Anke Dreher, Amy Coulter, Stefan Langer and Semyon Chaichenets. The lover is that which loves and the beloved is that which is loved. The love of the lover is for possession of the good. In this case, Kamala would be the lover as she does not see Siddhartha’s looks but loves his mind and his words. While Siddhartha is explaining to Kamala why it is good to write, fast, and read, stated here; “Kamala listened to him. She loved his voice, she loved the look from his eyes.”(Hesse36) she loves the way Siddhartha uses words to weave sentences. Siddhartha is the beloved because although he does love Kamala he is very interested in her physical attributes almost every time he talks to her he mentions how beautiful she is.
Works Cited
Hesse, Herman. "Kamala." Siddhartha. Lexington: Bridgeford Classics, 2013. 36. Print.

Posted by: Alexia Chambers at September 25, 2013 01:52 AM


Ashley Johnson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question:
Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, Heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Platos symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love applies to the relationship between the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view, i.e., would one character see the love as vulgar/common and the other as chaste/heavenly? If so, why is this significant to the story?

Answer:
Heavenly love is the love between two men. It is associated with growing intelligence and is favored among men in Socrates time. Common love is the love that can be between both man and woman and will lead to a decrease in intelligence it’s a love that is more concerned with body than the mind. As stated by Phaedrus “…..common Aphrodite is essentially common…. and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul (Plato).” The love that best represents the relationship between Govinda and Siddhartha would be Heavenly love it’s a love between men that is centered around friendship. Govinda shows more of a commonly love towards Siddhartha in that he loves “Siddhartha's eye and sweet voice, he loved his walk and the perfect decency of his movements, he loved everything (Hesse 1).” Siddhartha had a heavenly love towards Govinda. This is important in the story because it shows the underlying relationship that they have with each other throughout the story.


Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Bridgeford Classics, 2013.
Plato. Symposium. Australia : University of Adelaide, 2012.

Posted by: Ashley Johnson at September 25, 2013 03:05 AM

Destiny Hubbard
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 Love and Desire in Literature CL
24 September 2013

Question:
Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the coure of the story? If so, how? How does the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Answer:
In the Symposium, Socrates states Diotima’s view of love that she had taught to him. According to her, there are phases that all lovers pass through. First, the lover uncovers the body’s beauty, then comes the recognition for beauty in all bodies, the lover becomes attracted to the wisdom of a person, and finally they appreciate the wisdom as a whole.
In Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, I understand that there is one character whose perception of love changes throughout. This character happens to be Siddhartha himself. The first time that I noticed the slight change was in his dream, or illusion, about his childhood friend Govinda; where he “pull[ed] him close to his chest and kissed him, it was not Govinda any more, but a woman, and a full breast popped out of the woman’s dress” (Pg. 37). This part coincides with Diotima’s first phase. Especially when he mentions that it “tasted of woman and man, of sun and forest, of animal and flower, of every fruit, of every joyful desire” (Pg. 37). He has, up until this moment, never mentioned lusting after anyone with such conviction. Siddhartha begins his appreciation for the beauty of the body when he meets Kamala for the first time. He was delighted and his heart “rejoiced” (Pg. 39). He changed his appearance for his impending introduction to Kamala. When he gets to know her more she introduces him to the lesson of love making. Siddhartha ends up cherishing her wisdom and the things that she teaches. After he leaves Kamala and continues on to the life of a ferryman, Siddhartha gains a sense of nirvana and learns to be at peace with himself. I believe that Siddhartha fully follows the phases that Diotima has set forth.

Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Hollywood, FL]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.
Plato, Benjamin Jowett, and Hayden Pelliccia. Symposium: The Benjamin Jowett Translation. New York: Modern Library, 1996. Print.

Posted by: Destiny Hubbard at September 25, 2013 03:41 AM

Paula Pion
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02
25 September 2013
Question #1: “Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship?”

Answer: The concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium is the Lover, the person who is giving the love and the Beloved is the person receiving the love (Plato). The characters Govinda and Siddhartha in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha have a strong friendship relationship. Using the Lover and Beloved concept, Govinda primarily is the Lover and Siddhartha is the Beloved. Throughout the story, it is evident that both characters care about each other and their friendship. When Govinda is introduced to the story, he is admiring his friend and the text says, “…he loved most was his spirit…” (Hesse 3). This illustrates their friendship type love and the Lover and Beloved between them.


Hesse, Herman. "Siddhartha: An Indian Tale." New Directions , 1922.

Plato. Symposium. Trans. Seth Benardete. Chicago: Chicago University Press, 2001. Print.

Posted by: Paula Pion at September 25, 2013 08:34 AM

Cheyenne DeMaggio
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person's wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse's Siddhartha? Does one character's understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character's love resemble or differ from Diotima's model?

Answer: In Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, the main character, Siddhartha, only has one official "teacher of love," Kamala, but his relationship with Kamala is not the only one that involves love. Early on in the book, Siddhartha's feelings for Govinda as a friend or life long companion are revealed by Siddhartha's sense of feeling lost and robbed after Govinda decides to follow Gotama (Hesse 38). The next change of view on love first occurs when Siddhartha is dreaming of Govinda, but the picture turns into a woman (Hesse 50). At this point in the story, Siddhartha had never encountered a woman romantically. This image paved the way for him to acknowledge Kamala's beauty. This compares to Diotima's model of love in that he discovers the beauty within his dream, and then moves on to appreciate it in his encounter with Kamala. The next part of Diotima's design is shown through Siddhartha's love for the ferryman. Siddhartha expresses that he not only enjoy's the ferryman's company, but admire's his wisdom when he says "And I also thank you, Vasudeva, for having listened to me so well! Few people know how to listen, and I never met anyone who knows how as well as you. In this too, I will learn from you" (Hesse 104). This admiration for the ferryman's wisdom is what led Siddhartha to become enlightened by the voice of the river, and thus understand all wisdom.

Hesse, Hermann, and Sherab Chodzin Kohn. Siddhartha: A new translation. Boston: Shambhala Publications, Inc., 2000. Print.

Posted by: Cheyenne DeMaggio at September 25, 2013 09:05 AM

Regina Green
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
25 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato's Symposium, in Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha. You much first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/ voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love applies to the relationship between the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view, i.e., would one character see the love as common and the other as heavenly? If so, why is this significant to the story?

Answer: The common love is the love of the body. Pausanias says, "This love which desires to only gain an end" (Jowett 7). On the other hand, heavenly love is when a man is looking for a mate he "means to be faithful to them,
and pass their whole life in company with them" Jowett 7). In other words common love would be someone who is looking to go out to a bar to find an attractive person to have a one-night-stand with. One who practices heavenly love would be looking for someone they could get married to.
In Siddhartha, Kamala and Siddhartha seem to have a common relationship. He went to her to learn how to make love; there were not supposed to be any emotional ties. With that said their love was common love. One day they were talking and Siddhartha says to Kamala, "I am like you. You also do not love - how else could you practice love as a craft" (Hesse 54). Siddhartha is not the only person Kamala sleeps with. Although they do not have an emotional connection Kamala says she wants her child to be his because he has god features. As time went on Kamala seemed to have developed feelings for Siddhartha because when he left she locked herself in her house and refused to see anyone.

Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha Trans. W. K. Marriott. New Directions. 1951 (U.S.) Print

Posted by: Regina Green at September 25, 2013 09:08 AM


Abdulaziz Alsaif
Dr. Hobbs
English -210 CL - CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013
Question # 3
Answer:
The concept of profane is the bad treatment of something holy regardless of what it is. The word and concept is used in the symposium “Therefore listen and excuse my doings then and my saying now. But let the attendants and other profane and unmannered persons close up the doors of their ears.” (Symposium 31)
The heavenly love is the faithful love till the end, that is the love of the others soul and not of the lust. “Then the old tale has to be repeated of fair and heavenly love -the love of Urania the fair and heavenly muse, and of the duty of accepting the temperate, and those who are as yet intemperate only that they may become temperate” (symposium 11). Siddhartha and Govinda have a heavenly love, this is looking at it from Siddhartha’s point of view, because he loves him not for his body but his soul, he was his friends from the beginning. But looking at it from Govinda’s point of view, it is also about the heavenly love, they don’t have a crazy relationship but their relationship was very close as friends.

Posted by: abdulaziz alsaif at September 25, 2013 09:32 AM

Christopher Holtzhower
ENG 210 CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
Dr. Burgsbee Hobbs
25 September 2013
Test #1
Question #7: In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in indea in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice. Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?
Answer: Narcissism is a trait one possesses when they love and admire themselves more than anything else. Some traits common to narcissism would be selfishness, being very prideful, and arrogance. The character in Siddhartha that mostly resembles a narcissistic mentality would be Siddhartha himself while he was living in the city as a merchant. Hesse writes about Siddhartha’s gambling, “Now he was a feared player; he bet so high and brashly that few dared play with him. He gambled out of an inner need; gambling away, frittering away, the miserable lucre brought him a malicious pleasure. This way he could display his contempt for wealth and for the indulgences of the merchants in the plainest most scornful way (Hesse 62).” Siddhartha gambles to show his wealth, which shows other merchants that he is better than they are. In a way, this is bragging and bragging is a trait of a narcissist. Siddhartha became very prideful over his possessions, and his ability of being a successful merchant. He then realized that he cared about these possessions and wealth more than he cared about bettering his own spirit. This leads to him leaving the city, and continue his spiritual journey.
Works Cited:
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2000. Print.

Posted by: Christopher Holtzhower at September 25, 2013 09:44 AM

Emily Paulino
Dr. Hobbs
ENG210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013
Question #4: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by the Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love applies to the relationship between the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view, i.e., would one characters see the love as common and the other as heavenly? If so, why is this significantly to the story?
Answer: The concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love in Symposium was a little different compared to Siddhartha because it was basically between heterosexual and homosexual love. I think I find profane, common love and the scared heavenly love between Siddhartha and Kamala by the way Siddhartha described the looks and personality of Kamala. He basically fell in love with her at first sight. “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced. He bowed deeply, when the sedan-chair came closer, and straightening up again, he looked at the fair, charming face, read for a moment in the smart eyes with the high arcs above, breathed in a slight fragrant, he did not know. With a smile, the beautiful women nodded for a moment and disappeared into the grove, and then the servant as well” (Hesse).
I think being seen by Kamala’s point of view would be different because maybe she didn’t see what Siddhartha saw in her. I think Kamala would have seen the love as common because it wasn’t a big deal or anything. It would be significant to the story because it would change the ideas of the reader’s point of view.
Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. 2012.

Posted by: Emily Paulino at September 25, 2013 10:08 AM

Diego Pestana
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL – Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013
Test #1, Question #9
Q: In Hesse's Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala's role for Siddhartha is as an erotic teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long that is to say, he changed teachers frequently. In the snes of love's meaning as expressed by Plato's Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that same character/concept were to hypothetically attend Plato's symposium, which of the symposium's speakers might it empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha's lover teacher (not Kamala), and why?
A: In Plato's Symposium, Socrates talks about other modes of love that are not just physical or human that Siddhartha experiences in his journey throughout the novel. When talking about his teacher of love, Diotima, Socrates conveys to the others in the symposium how she taught him about the importance of wisdom and how it can be passed down just as lovers can bear children. Socrates repeats what Diotima said, which was that a man who has an intellectual love “will create many fair and noble thoughts and notions in boundless love of wisdom” (Plato). In other words, love can spawn wisdom in a human. In this sense, one very important teacher of love for Siddhartha is the ferryman, Vasudeva. Vasudeva teaches Siddhartha that most important are of listening, especially listening to the river, which proves to be the last thing that Siddhartha needed in order to achieve the full enlightenment he was desiring. When Siddhartha finally learns how to listen from the ferryman, the narrator states that, “There shone in his face the serenity of knowledge” (Hesse 136). If Vasudeva were to attend Plato's symposium, I believe the speaker he would most empathize with is Socrates as both men realize that there is more to wisdom than just the physical and tangible. Plato illustrates Socrates as a man who is always thinking and searching for wisdom. This is similar to how Vasudeva, before the arrival of Siddhartha, kept to himself as a ferryman while listening and gaining wisdom from the river.

Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. 1922. New York: Bantam, 1971. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett.
New York: Classics Club, 1942. Print.

Posted by: Diego Pestana at September 25, 2013 10:11 AM

Desiree Jaramillo
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
25 September 2013

Question 8: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the loves discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and final, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Answer: This pattern exists for Siddhartha himself. Through his journey, he was constantly searching. He had love for his friend, Govinda, but he was looking for another avenue of love. He realizes that he desires the love of another body when he dreams of Govinda transforming into a woman (Kamala). He finds Kamala, a beautiful courtesan, who teaches him the beauty of a body. Over time, Siddhartha continues on his journey to find appreciation for all of the “child-like” people (Sansara). As Siddhartha continues through life, he learns that he is not searching for love, but he is searching for wisdom. When he first meets the Ferryman again, he falls in love with the old man’s wisdom. He is amazed that the man says so little, but holds so much wisdom behind his smile. Similar to the love and appreciation of a body, Siddhartha learned to have an even greater appreciation for all wisdom. In this story, the river symbolizes all wisdom. It is in this sense that Siddhartha’s evolution of love differs from Diotima’s model. Even though the river represents all wisdom, the river is conveyed as one inanimate object.

*These chapter citations were taken from an online version of the text at www.gutenberg.org

Posted by: Desiree Jaramillo at September 25, 2013 10:14 AM

Santana 1

Lydia R Santana
Dr. Hobbs
ENG. 210 CL Love and Desires in Literature
24 September 2013


Question: Discuss how the concept of love as a biochemical “balance,” as first proposed by Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium, is connected to the following idea in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. You must first begin by articulating the particulars of Eryximachus’s theory and then expressing them in your own language/ voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the idea of balance and peace of mind applies to the love felt by the characters Govinda and Siddhartha in their relationship (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Are these characters really “balanced”? Do these characters truly have “peace of mind”? If so, why is this significant to the story? If not, what does this say about Eryximachus’s theory?

In the Symposium, Eryximachus starts to speak after Pausanias, and goes into his interpretation of love. He starts off basically stating that he agrees with Pausanias, that there is in fact two different kinds of love. He goes on further by stating that there is more to love it and that love isn’t just for humans but animals and other “productions of the earth”. Eryximachus goes further into his explanation of love in a scientific view of what love is, take for example when he states;
“There are in the human body these two kinds of love, which are confessedly different and unlike, and being unlike, they have loves and desires which are unlike; and the desire of the healthy is one, and the desire of the diseased is another; and as Pausanias was just now saying that to indulge good men is honourable, and bad men dishonourable:— so too in the body the good and healthy elements are to be indulged, and the bad elements and the elements of disease are not to be indulged, but discouraged. And this is what the physician has to do, and in this the art of medicine consists: for medicine may be regarded generally as the knowledge of the loves
Santana 2

and desires of the body, and how to satisfy them or not; and the best physician is he who is able to separate fair love from foul, or to convert one into the other; and he who knows how to eradicate and how to implant love, whichever is required, and can reconcile the most hostile elements in the constitution and make them loving friends, is a skillful practitioner” (Jowett).
In the story of Siddhartha, Siddhartha is on a self-seeking journey to figure out what teachings he feels that he needs in order to feel at peace. He goes from living with the Samanas, to the Illustrious One, to learning love from Kamala the courtesan, along with a merchant, and he learned the ways of the river from Vasudeva. He later explains to Govinda that love is what he needed to learn and graces him with enlightenment, after Govinda kisses him on the forehead. This is made apparent in the final chapter of Siddhartha in the Hilda Rosener translation, when Siddhartha addresses Govinda about the way he chooses to live. Siddhartha states;
“[I] came to distrust doctrine’s and teachers and to turn my back on them. I am still of the same turn of mind, although I have, since that time, had many teachers. A beautiful courtesan was my teacher for a long time, and a rich merchant [.] [O]ne of the Buddha’s wandering monks was my teacher. [. . .] But most of all, I have learned from this river and from my predecessor, Vesudeva. He was a simple man; he was not a thinker, but he realized the essential as well as Gotama. He was a holy man, a saint” (Hess 141-142). He continued to state, “I can love a stone, Govinda, and a tree or a piece off bark. These are things and one can love things, and one can love things. But one cannot love words. Therefore teachings are of no use to me; they have no hardness, no softness, nor colors, [and] no corners[.] ‘I understand that,’ said Govinda, ‘but that
Santana 3

is just what the Illustrious One called illusion. [. . .] He forbade us to blind ourselvesto earthly love. ‘I know that,’ said Siddhartha [. . .] ‘I know that, Govinda, and here we find ourselves within a maze of meanings, within the conflict of words about love are in apparent contradiction to the teachings of Gotama. That is why I distrust words so much” (Hess 146-147)
Siddhartha then askes Govinda to come near;
“Bend near to me!’ he whispered in Govinda’s ear. ‘Come, still nearer, quite close! Kiss me on the forehead, Govinda.’ [G]ovinda was compelled by a great love and presentiment to obey him; he leaned close to him and touched his forehead with his lips. As he did this, something wonderful happened to him. While he was still dwelling on Siddhartha’s strange words, while he strove in vain to dispel the conception of time, to imagine Nirvana and Samsara as one, while even a certain contempt for his friend’s words conflicted with a tremendous love esteem for him, this happened to him. He no longer saw the face of his friend Siddhartha. Instead he saw other faces, many faces-hundreds, thousands which all came and disappeared and yet all seemed to be there [.] [G]ovinda stood yet while bending over Siddhartha’s peaceful face which he had just kissed. [ . . .] He smiled peacefully and gently, perhaps very mockingly, exactly as the Illustrious One had smiled. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face. He was overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration” (Hess 149-151)
I feel that the characters from Siddhartha really do find peace of mind in love, because obviously Govinda is deeply moved by his strong feelings of humble love when he kisses Siddhartha on the forehead. This is significant to the story because Siddhartha was on a journey for self-peace and
Santana 4
enlightenment and does so by learning from different teachers different life lessons. In the end he realizes that it’s love that was needed to finish his enlightenment which he in turn, shows Govinda of his ways and he is also enlightened. I believe that the characters are balanced because they found peace and are happy at the end of the book.



Santana 5

Works Cited
Hess, Herman. Siddhartha. New York: New Directions Publishing Corporation, 1951.
Jowett, Benjamin. Sympossium. South Australia: University of Adelaide, 2012.

Posted by: Lydia Santana at September 25, 2013 10:18 AM

Jasmine Collins
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL: Love and Desire in Literature CA01
25 September 2013
Question 7: In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent Narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse’s
Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first
Begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice (use passages from
The Symposium text, if necessary, to support your definition). Then show how the
Stipulation of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have
chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?

Answer: Narcissism is when you have an obsession with yourself. Someone of that trait will always give praises to themselves. They love to talk about themselves, and occasionally put others down because they think they are more attractive than them. I believe the men in the Symposium like to hear Agathon speak, but more importantly they like to look at him. Many times the call him “good looking” (Jowett 16) and attractive, which makes him get big headed and thinks he is the only good looking man out there, and that everyone wants him. There is really only one character in Siddhartha that has the makings of a narcissist, and it is Kamala. Kamala isn’t as narcissistic as Agathon, but she does posses some of the traits. When talking to Siddhartha she tells him, “ Beautiful and red is Kamala’s mouth” (Hesse 42) she is giving praise to herself. Like Agathon has many supporters of his attractiveness, Kamala has her own. When Siddhartha is describing her, “a brightly red mouth, like a freshly cracked fig, eyebrows which were well tended and painted in a high arch” (Hesse 39),she already knows all these things about herself, she just likes to hear it from other people. Narcissism does exists and it is significant in the story because Siddhartha is looking for someone to teach him the ways of love, and Kamala is the only one. I believe that narcissistic people are the only ones that can teach love, because that is all they know what to talk about.
Works Cited
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Simon and Brown, 2012. Book.
Jowett, Benjamin. "Symposioum." Plato. n.d. 1-35. Book.

Posted by: Jasmine Collins at September 25, 2013 10:25 AM

Morgan Salter
Dr. Hobbs
English 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How does the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model.
Answer: Diotima, one of Socrates’ greatest teachers, showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. She explained that love is a patterned series of changing ideas and views of love until one ultimately acquires an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is beautiful. In Hesse’s Siddhartha the protagonist’s, Siddhartha’s, understanding of love changes throughout the course of the story. In the Symposium, Socrates concludes his speech with the finite definition that love is, in his opinion, the desire for wisdom. Siddhartha directly embodies this belief of love through the story of his lifelong quest for wisdom in efforts of reaching enlightenment. In the beginning, similar to Diotima’s model, Siddhartha studies control of his body and physical desires as a method of enlightenment. When this fails him, he ventures out to learn the ways of love from courtesan, Kamala. This resembles Diotima’s model in which Siddhartha is now learning an appreciation of all other bodies. Finally, he put his faith in himself, searching as he “earnestly wished to know more of himself, to have quiet, to be dead” (Hesse 68). It is when he leaves his lessons and teachings behind and, as Diotima expresses, comes to a point in which he has reached a deep appreciation of all wisdom that he finally reaches enlightenment. Through his quest for wisdom, Siddhartha demonstrates Diotima’s model of the love process.

Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and Sherab Chödzin. Siddhartha: A New Translation. Boston: Shambhala, 2002. Print.
Simpson, David L. "Plato's Symposium." Plato's Symposium. N.p., n.d. Web. 25 Sept. 2013.

Posted by: Morgan Salter at September 25, 2013 10:40 AM

Abdulaziz Alsaif
Dr. Hobbs
English -210 CL - CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013
Question # 3
Answer:
The concept of profane is the bad treatment of something holy regardless of what it is. The word and concept is used in the symposium “Therefore listen and excuse my doings then and my saying now. But let the attendants and other profane and unmannered persons close up the doors of their ears.” (Symposium 31)
The heavenly love is the faithful love till the end, that is the love of the others soul and not of the lust. “Then the old tale has to be repeated of fair and heavenly love -the love of Urania the fair and heavenly muse, and of the duty of accepting the temperate, and those who are as yet intemperate only that they may become temperate” (symposium 11). Siddhartha and Govinda have a heavenly love, this is looking at it from Siddhartha’s point of view, because he loves him not for his body but his soul, he was his friends from the beginning. But looking at it from Govinda’s point of view, it is also about the heavenly love, they don’t have a crazy relationship but their relationship was very close as friends.


Citation
Jowett, Benjamin. Translation of Plato's Symposium. N.p.: n.p., n.d. Pdf.

Posted by: abdulaziz alsaif at September 25, 2013 10:47 AM

Kylie Fagan
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
25 September 2013

Question: Discuss how the concept of love as a biochemical “balance,” as first proposed by
Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium, is connected to the following idea In Hermann Hesse’s
Siddhartha: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. You
must first begin by articulating the particulars of Eryximachus’s theory and then
expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your
definitions). Then show how the idea of balance and peace of mind applies to the love felt
by the characters Govinda and Siddhartha in their relationship (use quoted passages
from the text to support your claim). Are these characters really “balanced”? Do these
characters truly have “peace of mind”? If so, why is this significant to the story? If not,
what does this say about Eryximachus’s theory?

Answer: Eryximachus's main theory throughout the Symposium is that love exists in everything throughout nature, and it is omnipresent.He believes that love is a biochemical balance which means that it is not only found through human beings falling in love or interacting, but that it also is found all throughout nature and in medicine. He believes that it is found in plants and animals as well as a variety of other things. During Eryximachus's speech, he states, "But my art further informs me that the double love is not merely an affection of the soul of man towards the fair, or towards anything,but is to be found in the bodies of all animals and in productions of the earth" (Plato), which describes his view of love. This is connected to the following idea In Hermann Hesse’s
Siddhartha: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields, because when a person has really found love, it is a very settling feeling and leads to a universal love that is found everywhere in one's life and not only through interaction with another person. Both of these ideas go beyond the concept of physical love, and reach into the word of love as being something that we can find everywhere throughout our lives. In the book Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, I would say that the characters of Govinda and Siddhartha have a somewhat balanced relationship. Throughout the novel Govinda practically idolizes Siddhartha and they are best friends. They kind of balance each other out because are both searching to find theirselves and things that they believe are missing from their lives. I would say that they do not have peace of mind until the end of the story, because the entire book they are searching to find that peace. Towards the end of the novel, they both gain that "peace of mind," and Siddhartha's main search was for that of love, and Govinda was searching to find knowledge. Along the way they both face many experiences and encounter a variety of different people that help the the find what they are looking for.


Works Cited

Hesse, Hermann, Rika Lesser, and Robert A. F. Thurman. Siddhartha: An Indic Poem. New York: Barnes & Noble Classics, 2007. Print.

(PDF) 360 BC Symposium by Plato translated by Benjamin Jowett
http://lgdata.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/docs/797/864402/Plato_-_Symposium_-_360_BCE_-_Trans_Benjamin_Jowett.pdf

Posted by: Kylie Fagan at September 25, 2013 11:03 AM

Rache Robinson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Queston:In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is as an erotic
teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to
say, he changed teachers frequently. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by Plato’s
Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have
to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha
about love? If that same character/concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s
symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might it empathize with the most? In
other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover
teacher (not Kamala), and why?

I am using the online translated version by EDB books. In my opinion, Siddhartha learned about love from the ferryman because he and Siddhartha were able to form a bond since they were younger. Even when they met again as older men, Siddhartha still recognized the ferryman, "By this river I want to stay, thought Siddhartha, it is the same which I have crossed a long time ago on my way to the childlike people, a friendly ferryman had guided me" (70).

Posted by: Rache Robinson at September 25, 2013 11:11 AM

Jennifer Schubin
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question 7. In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice (use passages from the Symposium text, if necessary, to support your definition). Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?
Book: Using the copy used in class.
Answer: The term narcissism means that a person or a group of people do not consider other person’s feelings. They also do not care if they hurt someone in the process of being self-centered. In Hermann Heese’s Siddhartha, Kamala used to be this way. She tells Siddhartha, " Never has happened to me, friend, that a Samana from the forest came to me and wanted to learn from me! Mine Never did it happen that a Samana with long hair and an old torn cloth shame came to me! Many young men come to me, and also sons of Brahmans among them are, but they come in beautiful clothes, they come in fine shoes, they have perfume in their hair and money in the bags. So, you Samana, the youths are such that come to me. "Quoth Siddhartha:" Already I'm starting to learn from you. Also yesterday I learned. I have already taken the beard, have combed the hair, have oil in the hair. Few things that still need to get, you Noble: fine clothes, fine shoes, money in the bag,…”( Heese 41) This quote proves that Kamala was once a self-centered person.
Question 8: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?
Answer: This is true for Siddhartha’s best friend Govinda. Siddhartha stated to Govinda, “This is what you wanted for yourself. Tomorrow, Govinda, I’ll leave you” This is an example of someone’s journey impacting another life. Govinda wanted to stay in the city of Savathi while Siddhartha wanted to move on and “leave” his best friend behind.

Question 9: . In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is as an erotic teacher. However, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to
say, he changed teachers frequently. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by Plato’s Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that same character/concept were to hypothetically attend Plato’s symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might it empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the symposium best correlates with Siddhartha’s lover teacher (not Kamala), and why?
Answer: In Hesse’s Siddhartha, the main character begins the journey home he comes across Govinda again and he considers him as a lover in this story

Posted by: Jennifer Schubin at September 25, 2013 11:29 AM

Dana DeLosa
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01: Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Exam Question One: “Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the
characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your
claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the story?”

Answer: According to Phaedrus, a dynamic relationship exists between the lover and the beloved; he utilizes the Greek myth of Achilles and Patroclus to portray his definitions of each. Phaedrus describes the beloved as “the fairer and beardless” whereas the lover “is more divine” and wiser (Plato 6). The myth of Achilles and Patroclus applies to these definitions because Achilles is the younger lover of the older Patroclus who provides Achilles with his wisdom. The Gods describe the sacrifice Achilles makes in order to save Patroclus as honorable because the love returned by the beloved to the lover “is admired and valued and rewarded” (Plato 6). In Siddhartha, Herman Hesse creates a dynamic love similar to this between the protagonist, Siddhartha and his companion Govinda; however, in the beginning of the novel Siddhartha is not cognizant of his love for Govinda. Siddhartha characterizes the lover archetype because he challenges the ideals forced upon him from the teachers in his life; contrastingly Govinda accepts them because he needs their wisdom and experience. This ideal becomes evident during their time spent together before Siddhartha departs from Gotama’s teachings; when Siddhartha tells Govinda “Often I have thought: Won’t Govinda for once also take a step by himself” (Hesse 25). Once Siddhartha left the Buddha, Govinda willingly followed Gotama until he died. Lost, Govinda heard of “an old ferryman, who lived one day’s journey away by the river, and who was regarded as a wise man by many” (Hesse 97). Driven by this knowledge, Govinda journeyed to the river to the wise ferryman. Even after spending their life apart, Govinda still yields to Siddhartha’s wisdom and desires for Siddhartha to tell him “certain teachings, which are you own and which help you to live”(Hesse 99). Their relationship continually depends on Siddhartha imparting his wisdom on the less experienced and knowledgeable Govinda.

Works Cited
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Trans. W.K. Marriott. South Carolina: Simon & Brown, 2012. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. New York: Modern Library. 1996. Digital.

Posted by: Dana DeLosa at September 25, 2013 11:29 AM

CORRECTION

Kerriann Salatti
Dr.Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013

Question: Discuss the concept of the profane, common love and the sacred, heavenly love, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first being by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice. Then show how the stipulations for one of these types of love apply to the relationship between the characters Kamala and Siddhartha . Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view. If so, why is this significant to the story?

Answer: The profane common love is the love of the body. It is considered the desire and want of another person. The sacred heavenly love is the love of soul, which is considered the deeper spiritual love of another person. Kamala and Siddhartha both show a common love which is more physical but Siddhartha also shows a heavily love for Kamala. A quote said by Siddhartha was “how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 51). It can be said that they are soul mates because they complete one another. He tells Kamala “you are like me, you are different from most people” (Hesse 53). In the symposium they talk about how humans were made up to two people with twice the mount of body parts and then they were split down the middle and people would have to search for their other half. The problem between Siddhartha and Kamala is that they both do not love emotionally other a physical and mental love. (Hesse 54) This causes them to not have an emotional love but they share the same connection of not being able to love another person. If their relationship was labeled differently I don’t think it would change the story because they have a mutual viewpoint on not being able to have an emotional love for another person. Through out the story they do go back and forth on who loves the other one more there’s not a point that they both show a mutual love.

Work Cited
Jowett, Benjamin. "Platos Symposium." 360 BC Symposium. Plato, n.d. Web.

Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Hollywood, FL]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.

Posted by: Kerriann Salatti at September 25, 2013 11:34 AM

Edited version

Santana 1

Lydia R Santana
Dr. Hobbs
ENG. 210 CL Love and Desires in Literature
24 September 2013


Question: Discuss how the concept of love as a biochemical “balance,” as first proposed by Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium, is connected to the following idea in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. You must first begin by articulating the particulars of Eryximachus’s theory and then expressing them in your own language/ voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the idea of balance and peace of mind applies to the love felt by the characters Govinda and Siddhartha in their relationship (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Are these characters really “balanced”? Do these characters truly have “peace of mind”? If so, why is this significant to the story? If not, what does this say about Eryximachus’s theory?

In the Symposium, Eryximachus starts to speak after Pausanias, and goes into his interpretation of love. He starts off basically stating that he agrees with Pausanias, that there is in fact two different kinds of love. He goes on further by stating that there is more to love and that love isn’t just for humans but animals and other “productions of the earth”. Eryximachus goes further into his explanation of love in a scientific view of what love is, take for example when he states;
“There are in the human body these two kinds of love, which are confessedly different and unlike, and being unlike, they have loves and desires which are unlike; and the desire of the healthy is one, and the desire of the diseased is another; and as Pausanias was just now saying that to indulge good men is honorable, and bad men dishonorable:— so too in the body the good and healthy elements are to be indulged, and the bad elements and the elements of disease are not to be indulged, but discouraged. And this is what the physician has to do, and in this the art of medicine consists: for medicine may be regarded generally as the knowledge of the loves
Santana 2

and desires of the body, and how to satisfy them or not; and the best physician is he who is able to separate fair love from foul, or to convert one into the other; and he who knows how to eradicate and how to implant love, whichever is required, and can reconcile the most hostile elements in the constitution and make them loving friends, is a skillful practitioner” (Jowett).
In the story of Siddhartha, Siddhartha is on a self-seeking journey to figure out what teachings he feels that he needs in order to feel at peace. He goes from living with the Samanas, to the Illustrious One, to learning love from Kamala the courtesan, along with a merchant, and he learned the ways of the river from Vasudeva. He later explains to Govinda that love is what he needed to learn and graces him with enlightenment, after Govinda kisses him on the forehead. This is made apparent in the final chapter of Siddhartha in the Hilda Rosener translation, when Siddhartha addresses Govinda about the way he chooses to live. Siddhartha states;
“[I] came to distrust doctrine’s and teachers and to turn my back on them. I am still of the same turn of mind, although I have, since that time, had many teachers. A beautiful courtesan was my teacher for a long time, and a rich merchant [.] [O]ne of the Buddha’s wandering monks was my teacher. [. . .] But most of all, I have learned from this river and from my predecessor, Vesudeva. He was a simple man; he was not a thinker, but he realized the essential as well as Gotama. He was a holy man, a saint” (Hess 141-142). He continued to state, “I can love a stone, Govinda, and a tree or a piece off bark. These are things and one can love things, and one can love things. But one cannot love words. Therefore teachings are of no use to me; they have no hardness, no softness, nor colors, [and] no corners[.] ‘I understand that,’ said Govinda, ‘but that
Santana 3

is just what the Illustrious One called illusion. [. . .] He forbade us to blind ourselves to earthly love. ‘I know that,’ said Siddhartha [. . .] ‘I know that, Govinda, and here we find ourselves within a maze of meanings, within the conflict of words about love are in apparent contradiction to the teachings of Gotama. That is why I distrust words so much” (Hess 146-147)
Siddhartha then asks Govinda to come near;
“Bend near to me!’ he whispered in Govinda’s ear. ‘Come, still nearer, quite close! Kiss me on the forehead, Govinda.’ [G]ovinda was compelled by a great love and presentiment to obey him; he leaned close to him and touched his forehead with his lips. As he did this, something wonderful happened to him. While he was still dwelling on Siddhartha’s strange words, while he strove in vain to dispel the conception of time, to imagine Nirvana and Samsara as one, while even a certain contempt for his friend’s words conflicted with a tremendous love esteem for him, this happened to him. He no longer saw the face of his friend Siddhartha. Instead he saw other faces, many faces-hundreds, thousands which all came and disappeared and yet all seemed to be there [.] [G]ovinda stood yet while bending over Siddhartha’s peaceful face which he had just kissed. [ . . .] He smiled peacefully and gently, perhaps very mockingly, exactly as the Illustrious One had smiled. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face. He was overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration” (Hess 149-151)
I feel that the characters from Siddhartha really do find peace of mind in love, because obviously Govinda is deeply moved by his strong feelings of humble love when he kisses Siddhartha on the forehead. This is significant to the story because Siddhartha was on a journey for self-peace and
Santana 4
enlightenment and does so by learning from different teachers different life lessons. In the end he realizes that it’s love that was needed to finish his enlightenment which he in turn, shows Govinda of his ways and he is also enlightened. I believe that the characters are balanced because they found peace and are happy at the end of the book.



Santana 5

Works Cited
Hess, Herman. Hilda Rosner translation. Siddhartha. New York: New Directions Publishing Corporation, 1951.
Jowett, Benjamin. Sympossium. South Australia: University of Adelaide, 2012.

Posted by: Lydia Santana at September 25, 2013 11:48 AM

(REPOST)

Connor Schaefer
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL- CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
25 September 2013


Question: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Answer: In Siddhartha, I believe that there are two characters that follow the pattern Diotima describes in The Symposium. The two characters are Siddhartha and Govinda. Siddhartha follows the pattern more than Govinda, but there are parts of the pattern that Govinda also follows. I believe Govinda follows the part when Diotima talks about having an attraction to one’s wisdom and then eventually moves to the appreciation of all wisdom. In the beginning of the book, Govinda follows Siddhartha’s every move. He even follows him to learn more knowledge. At this point of the story, Govinda is focusing on Siddhartha’s interests in wisdom. After Siddhartha leaves Govinda behind, he forces himself to expand his mind to other wisdom that he would not have done if he stayed with Siddhartha. Even though Govinda does not fully follow the path that Diotima talks about, I believe he does follow part of it.

Siddhartha does have this pattern throughout the story. The first step of the pattern is that the lover discovers the beauty. Siddhartha believes he is very intelligent, and I would argue that Siddhartha could be in love with himself in the beginning of the book. He seeks knowledge to make him the most knowledgeable human. I think the next step in Diotima’s pattern is a combination of the third step of her pattern. Siddhartha seeks the beauty of others and the wisdom of one individual all in one part of the book. When Siddhartha meets Kamala, he is in love with her beauty, and he is searching for her wisdom. That is why I think those two steps in the pattern are combinations of both. Diotima even talks about these two steps being similar. She says, “. . . they are those who are in a mean between the two; Love is one of them. For wisdom is a most beautiful thing, and Love is of there beautiful; and therefore Love is also a philosopher: or lover of wisdom, and being a lover of wisdom is in a mean between the wise and the ignorant” (Plato 22). These two steps can be combined to become a lover of wisdom. Hesse even states that Siddhartha thinks she is beautiful by saying, “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart rejoiced” (Hesse 39). Siddhartha knows she is very beautiful, so this scene could be Siddhartha seeing all bodies as beautiful. Siddhartha thinks Kamala is beautiful, but he also wants to gain wisdom from her. Siddhartha says, “To tell you this and to thank you for being so beautiful. And if it doesn’t displease you, Kamala, I would like to ask you to be my friend and teacher, for I know nothing of that art which you have mastered in the highest degree” (Hesse 41). In the quote, Siddhartha is asking Kamala if she can teach him. Siddhartha is asking Kamala for wisdom. This scene can relate to Diotima’s thought of someone would move on to one person’s attraction of wisdom. The last part of Diotima’s described pattern is the appreciation of all wisdom. This occurs when Siddhartha and the Ferryman talk about listening to the river. At that moment, Siddhartha listens to the river and discovers numerous things from the river. He learns that his father has been waiting for him to come home and he has to let his own son go. The Ferryman makes Siddhartha feel whole and complete. If Siddhartha is whole and complete, that means that he has embraced all wisdom. Siddhartha and Govinda both follow Diotima’s description of the pattern, but Siddhartha follows the pattern more.


Work Cited
Hesse, Hermann, and W. K. Marriott. Siddhartha. [Hollywood, FL]: Simon and Brown, 2012. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. Print.

Posted by: Connor Schaefer at September 25, 2013 11:56 AM

*Correction*
Christopher Holtzhower
ENG 210 CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
Dr. Burgsbee Hobbs
25 September 2013
Test #1
Question #7: In his homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes because, by all accounts, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident. Work with this idea of self-love in indea in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative? You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own language/voice. Then show how the stipulations of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/why is it significant to the story?
Answer: Narcissism is a trait one possesses when they love and admire themselves more than anything else. Some traits common to narcissism would be selfishness, being very prideful, and arrogance. The character in Siddhartha that mostly resembles a narcissistic mentality would be Siddhartha himself while he was living in the city as a merchant. Hesse writes about Siddhartha’s gambling, “Now he was a feared player; he bet so high and brashly that few dared play with him. He gambled out of an inner need; gambling away, frittering away, the miserable lucre brought him a malicious pleasure. This way he could display his contempt for wealth and for the indulgences of the merchants in the plainest most scornful way (Hesse 62).” Siddhartha gambles to show his wealth, which shows other merchants that he is better than they are. In a way, this is bragging and bragging is a trait of a narcissist. Siddhartha became very prideful over his possessions, and his ability of being a successful merchant. He then realized that he cared about these possessions and wealth more than he cared about bettering his own spirit. This leads to him leaving the city, and continue his spiritual journey.
Works Cited:
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Trans. Sherab C. Kohn. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2000.
Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Alexander Nehamas and Paul Woodruff. Indianapolis: Hackett Pub.,
1989. Print.

Posted by: Christopher Holtzhower at September 25, 2013 12:07 PM

Vera Smirnova
Dr. Hobbs
English 210 CL CA01 Love and Desire in Literature
24 September 2013

Question #8: Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body, then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then moves on to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character’s love resemble or differ from Diotima’s model?

Love is an important part of Herman Hesse’s story of Siddhartha. The protagonist begins his journey as a young man seeking for the knowledge. He goes to the woods to reach spiritual enlightenment. As a Samana, he has to be free of any wishes and desires, but one day he meets a beautiful courtesan Kamala and everything changes. Siddhartha discovers love in a very similar to Diotima’s theory way. First, he falls in love with the beauty of a courtesan. Later, living amongst people, he begins to appreciate their lives and even envy their ability to love. He is learning the art of love from Kamala. The main character has an attraction to her and her wisdom. The difference of Siddhartha’s story and Diotima’s philosophy is in the ending. The way of how “appreciation of all wisdom” comes to him. It did not come to him with the love of the courtesan, but with love of his son. It opened to him all the colors of emotions and love. Siddhartha’s understanding of love changes through the story as an inconstant river.

References
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. New York: New Directions Books, 1957. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. Adelaide, 10 11 2012.

Posted by: Vera Smirnova at September 25, 2013 01:36 PM

Paula Pion
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA02
25 September 2013
Question #1: “Discuss the concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium, in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. You must first begin by defining the terms and expressing them in your own language/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the stipulations of each definition apply to the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text to support your claim). Which character plays which role (primarily) in the relationship?”

Answer: The concept of the Lover and the Beloved, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium is the Lover, the person who is giving the love and the Beloved is the person receiving the love (Plato). The characters Govinda and Siddhartha in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha have a strong friendship relationship. Using the Lover and Beloved concept, Govinda primarily is the Lover and Siddhartha is the Beloved. Throughout the story, it is evident that both characters care about each other and their friendship. When Govinda is introduced to the story, he is admiring his friend and the text says, “…he loved most was his spirit…” (Hesse 3). This illustrates their friendship type love and the Lover and Beloved between them.


Hesse, Herman. "Siddhartha: An Indian Tale." New Directions , 1922.

Plato. Symposium. Trans. Seth Benardete. Chicago: Chicago University Press, 2001. Print.


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*NOTE* 27 September 2013. Any student posts appearing ABOVE this marker should be for the take-home (open book), essay question portion of the test. It is/was due by class time on 25 September 2013. The results of the assessment are already "in." Any test question answer for that particular test appearing below this marker will/can not be considered for a score.


~ Dr. Hobbs

Posted by: Paula Pion at September 25, 2013 08:52 PM

Darius Anderson
When asked, by Diotima, “When a man loves the beautiful, what does he desire?" Socrates responds "That the beautiful may be his (22)." But what good is possessing beauty, except by means of beauty being good, thus, "the happy are made happy by the acquisition of good things (23).” Herein lies the start to Siddhartha’s journey to finding love for he “was not a source of joy for himself, he found no delight in himself (Hesse 6).” Wanting to silence his soul Siddhartha leaves home to go practice with the Samanas, hoping he can find meaning in life. Siddhartha hears many teachings and gains wisdom but still thirsted for more, provoking him to wander off on his own. While on his own he had an awakening, an awakening to the fact that “Beautiful was the world (hesse 31).” Everything around him was “strange and mysterious” and this delighted him (31). After this Siddhartha begins to find love in everything, “I can love a stone,” “things can be loved” he tells Govinda. This was taught to him by a great teacher he met along the way, the ferryman, Vasudeva, who learned all he knew from the river. The “rivers spoke to him, he learned from it (Hesse 102).” What he did not know, though was that “every wind, every cloud, every bird, every beetle was just as divine and knows just as much (Hesse 102).”

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*NOTE* The deadline for this particular assignment has now passed. Any comments listed below are *ONLY* for the reposting of comments that I specifically asked to be revised or are ones from non-student posters. Any 'student' posts below that missed the assignment deadline will not get credit for the assignment. ~ Dr. Hobbs

Posted by: Darius Anderson at October 2, 2013 12:26 PM

Kaitlin Millner
Dr.Hobbs
7 October 2013
Quiz 2 Essay

In both readings Plato Eros Love; Platonic Love, and The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald’s love is shown in a different kind of way. The stories both share a father- son set that can be applied to Paul’s theory of agape.
Through out The Great Gatsby, Gatsby and his father had an interval relationship. The love between the two was not shown nor rarely talked about. At the end of the book you find out that Henry, Gatsby’s father really pulls through to show his love and respect for his son. His agape for Gatsby is shown when his father comes to Long Island for his son’s death. “His pride in his son and in his son’s possessions was continually increasing.” (The Great Gatsby pg.513). Although Gatsby did not have many people to attend his wake, only the ones who Gatsby touched, Plato’s reading explains that Paul calls for Jesus through the will of God.
In Plato’s reading {3:18} “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemth to be wise in his world let him become a fool. The he may be wise. {3:19} “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.” (Plato's Symposium). This quote can relate to both reading because God’s love is divine. God’s love is unconditional. God’s love to his son Paul may not be a hand in hand relationship but Paul knowledge’s that God’s love is agape with him just like Gatsby and his fathers.
In these stories agape love is always carried on through and with God. The stories show foolishness and sage through the characters.


Works Cited
Fitzgerald, F. Scott, and Matthew J. Bruccoli. The Great Gatsby. New York, NY: Scribner, 1996. Print.
Platon, Seth Benardete, and Allan David Bloom. Plato's "Symposium" Chicago (Ill.): University of Chicago, 2001. Print.

Posted by: Kaitlin Millner at October 7, 2013 08:40 AM

Daniella Zacarias
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
Love and Desire in Literature (CA01)
5.2.2014
Question #19

QUESTION # 19:
How does Socrates’s erotic teacher feel about dichotomies? Why might Socrates be telling this story to the symposium’s participants? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:
Diotima, Socrates’s erotic teacher, believes that dichotomies are useless when trying to define love. When it comes to love, there cannot be a black or white kind of discussion. It instead requires the “grey areas” to form levels. (Example: Heavenly love/Common love; and all its sub-topics, each differently placed over the other.)
Diotima mentions that there is a zone between Gods (immortal) and humans (mortal) “‘A great daemon, Socrates, for everything daemonic is between god and mortal.’” (Benardete 33). She suggests that Eros should not be defined by the use of dichotomies, but instead with daemonic characteristics. Eros “[. . .] is always poor; and he is far from being tender and beautiful, [. . .] but is tough, squalid, shoeless, and homeless. [. . . ] he has the nature of his mother. But in accordance with his father he plots to trap the beautiful and the good, and is courageous, stout, and keen, a skilled hunter, always weaving devices, desirous of practical wisdom and inventive. [. . .] his nature is neither immortal nor mortal.’” (Benardete 33-34).
Socrates uses the dialogue method (or Socratic Method) to explain his views, without forcing them onto his listeners. In this case, Socrates probably wishes to level with the young and naïve, Agathon. By stating that he once thought the same as Agathon, Socrates captures his listener’s attention; then using dialogue with Diotima he explains his views by explaining how he got to them.

Posted by: Daniella Zacarias at February 5, 2014 12:14 PM

Marie Ryan
Dr. Hobbbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA01
5 February 2014

Question 13: When it is time for Socrates to speak, what does he request from Phaedrus,the syposium's host? How does he plan to do something different? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer: I am using the Benjamin Jowett translation. When Socrates begins speaking he asks Phaedrus to forgive him of his prior promise. The passage form the text which supports this is, "But as I misunderstood the nature of the praise when I said I would take my turn, I must beg to be absolved from my promise which I made in ignorance..." (Plato 18). Socrates planes on telling the truth about love, instead of just praising Eros. To support this he says to Phaedrus, "Say then, Phaedrus, whether you would like, to have the truth about love, spoken in any words and any order which may happen to come into my mind at the time" (Plato 18).

Posted by: Marie Ryan at February 5, 2014 06:12 PM

Alison Schucht
Dr. Burgsbee L. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
6 February 2014

QUESTION #26:
Why is it significant, and perhaps, even ironic that Plato chose to have this lesson about love told by a woman? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:
The translation I am using was written by Seth Benardete written in 1986.

It is significant, and even ironic, that Plato chose to have this lesson about love told by a woman because at this time period, women did not hold the role of teaching. Typically at symposiums, women played roles as courtesans or for entertainment purposes. Quote Eryximachus: "...I next propose to dismiss the flute girl who just came in and to let her flute for herself..." (Benardete 238). Clearly, women did not have rights being that Eryximachus dismissed this woman from entertaining their dinner party. The fact that Socrates' teacher, Diotima, practically taught a lesson about love is truly fascinating at this time period due to the women not being taken seriously during this time.

Posted by: Alison Schucht at February 6, 2014 06:59 PM

Trey Griseck
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG. 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
6 February 2014

Question #16
What is the connection that Socrates makes between good things and beautiful things? After Socrates is finished, the participants of the symposium are left with a new definition of love. According to Socrates, what is love?
Answer:
The connection that Socrates makes between good things and beautiful things is that a beautiful thing is something that you are pursuing it. Love is a good thing. So the connection that Socrates makes is that love has no beauty, it lacks beautiful things, good things are beautiful which means love lacks good things. According to Socrates, Love is a spirit that is between people and the things that they physically desire. Love is neither wise nor is it beautiful, love is rather is the desire for wisdom and beauty. Love shows itself through pregnancy and reproduction of a male and a woman, either through the love of being sexual or through the share of ideas as in reproduction.

Posted by: Trey Griseck at February 6, 2014 07:10 PM

Rosa Esquivel
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 201CL Love and Desire in English Literature CA 01
6 February 2014

QUESTION #17:
If we are to accept the conclusion of Socrates, what strange characteristic about Eros manifests itself on the topic of both beauty and goodness? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

ANSWER:
Translation by Benjamin Jowett was used. At the beginning of Socrates’ speech he goes begins to question everything Agathon said about Eros. According to Socrates Eros is not love because he is unhappy, and without happiness he is not good he is not seeking goodness. This also makes Eros unjust and insensitive, and it makes him, not courageous. “And does he possess, or does he not possess, that which he loves and desires” (Plato). “If a man being strong desired to be strong, or being swift desired to be swift, or being healthy desired to be healthy, in that case he might be thought to desire something which he already has or is” (Plato). Accepting Socrates’ speech we would have to conclude that Eros is neither beautiful nor a man of goodness. In order to be those things one must not only want them, but must own them before being love and goodness.

Posted by: Rosa Esquivel at February 6, 2014 07:23 PM

Christopher Lavie Mienandy
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210 Love and Desire in Literature CA01
5 February 2014


QUESTION #3: What might happens to us (again), according to Aristophanes, if we continue to upset or dishonor the gods? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:
(Translation of Plato’s Symposium by Benjamin Jowett)
According to Aristophanes, if we continue to upset or dishonor the gods, they might split us up again. Aristophanes explains that humans used to be one, and because of our sins, the gods tore us apart: “There was a time, I say, when we were one, but now because of the wickedness of mankind God has dispersed us.” Thus, we would look like the profile figures painted on walls: “There is a danger that we shall be split up again and go on basso-relievo, like the profile figures having only half a nose.”

Posted by: christopher lavie mienandy at February 6, 2014 09:10 PM

Anthony Jannetta
Dr. Lee B. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
7 February 2014

QUESTION #6:
Why does Agathon suggest that it is more intimidating to speak to a small group than a large one? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:
Agathon suggests that it is more intimidating to speak to a small group than a large one because it he is personalizing every each of the people presents in a small group. Indeed, when he talks to a large group he does not think about who is in the group; he does not know if there are wise or silly people, he just talks. Whereas in a small group, he knows who are the people and that in this buffet, all of them are wise men. We notice that on the page 255 of translation by Seth Benardette (1986): “I know very well that were you to meet any you believed wise, you would think more of them than of the many”.

Posted by: Anthony Jannetta at February 6, 2014 10:44 PM

Kyle McLeish
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL CAO1
6 Feb. 2014

Question 8.

Why is Eros happy according to Agathon's.

Answer
Agathon states that Eros is happy because he is the most beautiful and best God of them all (Archive 256). He also states the Eros is young and younger than any other God.

Posted by: Kyle McLeish at February 6, 2014 10:53 PM

Hosameddine Elnehmani
Dr. B. Lee Hobbes
ENG-210 Love and desire in Literature CA01
07 February 2014

QUESTION # 22
How does Diotima feel about the commonly repeated idea that “we are same throughout our entire lives” Explains, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (First, state which translation you are using)

Answer:
The translation used in this question is by Seth Bernadete (1986). As we know that Diotima is Socrates teacher, as to what Socrates had told us. I think what Diotima had meant, “we are same throughout our entire lives.” We hardly ever change, by the way, we think, and react to things. Diotima had also mentioned, “We deny that everyone loves the same things.” Sometimes when we love something, and fight to attain it we make sure to keep it for ourselves, and we will not change.

Posted by: Hosameddine at February 6, 2014 11:12 PM

Franck Bayebanen
Dr. Bursgbee L. Hobbs
English 210CL Love and Desire CA01
7 February, 2014

Question 10: Agathon makes descriptive claims (virtues) about Eros, a few of which seem irrational or overly enthusiastic. ONE of Agathon’s claims about Eros are that he is: Just; Why (according to Agathon’s reasoning)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer:
According to SYMPOSIUM by Plato translated by Benjamin Jowett Agathon doesn’t only describe Eros as just, he also sees Eros as sensitive and brave. Agathon turns it into a homage of the God of Love. The principal reason he believes Eros is just is because Love is something natural that is part of humanity. In fact there is no rational way to force a human to love another one “For all men in all things serve him of their own free will, and where there is voluntary agreement, there, as the laws which are the lords of the city say, is justice.” (Jowett p.17)

Posted by: Franck Bayebanen at February 6, 2014 11:45 PM

Kara K. Marino
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
Love and Desire in Literature ENG 210cl CA01
February 2014

QUESTION #24:
24.We are still in the world of dichotomies. Explain the evolution or the process of love, as first experienced by a young boy in Diotima’s model. How does it start, according to her, and how does it end (if it was done correctly)? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:
1986 Seth Bernadete Translation
One begins as a young boy by being attracted to beautiful bodies, and to one beautiful body in particular, and produce beautiful discourses with this body.
"Then do not compel what is not beautiful to be ugly, or
what is not good, to be bad. So too since you yourself agree that Eros is not good or beautiful, do not at all believe that he must be ugly and bad,' she said, 'but something between the two of them" (Plato 264).
The next stage is to recognize that all bodies are the same and that it is foolish to love one body. The boy then comes to love all beautiful bodies. Next, he comes to appreciate the beauty of minds, and loves those who are beautiful in mind whether or not they are beautiful in body. Recognizing the beauty in practices and laws, he will come to see that all kinds of beauty are similar and come to love beauty in general rather than beauty of bodies in particular. Looking at the different forms of knowledge, he will become a lover of knowledge, loving all sorts of discourses and ideas until he finally settles on one special type of knowledge. "Then who, Diotima, are the philosophizers,' I said, 'if they are neither the wise nor those who lack understanding? 'By now it is perfectly plain even to a child,' she said, 'that they are those between them both, of whom Eros would be one. For wisdom is one of the most beautiful things, and Eros is love in regard to the beautiful; and so Eros is-necessarily-a philosopher; and as a philosopher he is between being wise and being without understanding" (Plato 266).

Posted by: Kara Marino at February 7, 2014 02:31 AM

Will Fumero
Dr. Hobbs
Love and Desire (CA01)
2/5/14

20.) According to Socrates’s erotic teacher, why is it problematic to call a “lover” one desires the good/or the beautiful? Explain by providing passages from the actual text to support your answer.

The translation used for this answer comes from Benjamin Jowetts’s translation. Diotima, socrates’s erotic teacher, states that love cannot be one or the other out of those two. According to her teachings, she states that love needs to have those things listed above in order to be successful, and she passed this knowledge onto Socrates in order for him to spread the word. Love was in most cases viewed as a spirit that , when called upon, would come into play and bring the people satisfaction.

Posted by: William Fumero at February 7, 2014 03:14 AM

Pauline Helgesson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
6 February 2014

Question #1

Hegemonic dichotomies. What is wholeness? In Aristophanes dichotomy of completeness versus incompleteness, or injured versus uninjured, which is the privileged concept? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER:

Aristophanes dichotomy of completeness versus incompleteness started with that each person was twice as big compare what we are nowadays. They became too powerful and vigorous and made threatening attacks on the gods, therefore each person was cut in two. The original nature kept the people trying to find their other half and reunite with it. When they found their other half, they would embrace and stay together, as wholeness.

Love is something beautiful, a human need that everyone seeks. It is best when it is "complete and whole", which makes it the privileged concept in this case.

”For love is the desire of the whole, and the pursuit of the whole is called love” (Symposium Plato Benjamin Jowett translation 16)

Posted by: Pauline Helgesson at February 7, 2014 08:18 AM

Emma De Rhodo
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature
7 February 2014

QUESTION #5: Which, according to Aristophanes, are persons more attracted to in potential lovers: (a.) certain qualities in that person, or, (b.) the person himself/herself? How can we tell the difference between these two things? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

ANSWER: My answer will be based off of Benjamin Jowett’s translation of Plato’s Symposium. This version was the fourth online link on Libguides. Aristophenes says that Hephaestus said, “’What do you people want of one another?’ they would be unable to explain” (Plato 14). Then, apparently Hephaestus, in a way, answered for the people saying, “Do you desire to be wholly one; always day and night to be in one another’s company? For if this is what you desire, I am ready to melt you into one and let you grow together” (Plato 14). Therefore, I would say that, according to Aristophenes, persons are more attracted to other person himself/herself when seeking a potential lover. I believe this is true since Aristophenes says that the people who have heard the question would not have said they did not believe “that this meeting and melting into one another, this becoming one instead of two, was the very expression of his ancient need” (Plato 14). This importance of coming together with another person was because they believed people were connected to another person originally; Aristophenes says, “And the reason is that human nature was originally one and we were a whole, and the desire and pursuit of the whole is called love” (Plato 14).

Posted by: Emma De Rhodo at February 7, 2014 08:22 AM

Peter Grana
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
Love and Desire in Literature
5, February 2014
Question #14
What method or technique does Socrates use to rip Agathon’s previous conceptions about Eros to shreds? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).

Answer:
For this symposium translation, I have used the Benjamin Jowett translation to defend my answer. Socrates uses his Socratic method of asking questions to break down to the bare concepts of Agathon’s speech. Socrates’ rebuke of Agathon’s speech challenged his beliefs of love at his heart. Paraphrasing his speech,“’You made a very good speech Agathon, replied Socrates; but there is yet one small question I would fain ask: Is it not the good also the beautiful?’…Then the wanting the beautiful, love wants the good?’” (Plato 121, 122).

Posted by: Peter Grana at February 7, 2014 10:16 AM

Denzel Williams
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
ENG-210CL CA01
7 February 2014

Question: Did Aristophanes see any fundamental difference in the underlying theory of love in hetero relationships as opposed to same sex relationships?

Answer:In his explanation of the original composition of human beings in reference to love, Aristophanes in fact does contrast hetero relationships compared to same-same relationships. Aristophanes states that lovers of opposing sexes are of the androgynous breed and that adulterers are generally of this breed. The woman who are section of the woman do not care for men, but have female attachments; female companions of this sort. The explanation given for that of the male to male relationships was slightly more complex with him stating:
"But they who are a section of the male follow the male, and while they are young, being slices of the original man, they hang about men and embrace them, are they are themselves the best of boys and youths, because they have the most manly nature. Some indeed assert that they are seamless, but this is not true; for they do not act thus from any want of shame, but because they are valiant and manly, and have a manly countenance, and they embrace that which is like them."..... " And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half of himself whether he be a lover of youth or a lover of another sort, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and would not be out of the other's sight, as I may say even for a moment."

Posted by: Denzel Williams at February 7, 2014 11:06 AM

Chelsea Dickenson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA01
9 February 2014

2. In Plato’s Symposium, the concept of Lover and the Beloved was first introduced by a man named Phaedrus. This concept is easily defined as a lover pursuing a beautiful thing, or a lover pursuing its beloved that he/she feels is a beautiful thing. In Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, Kamala and Siddhartha exemplify this condition of Lover and the Beloved. When entering the grove, Siddhartha saw Kamala and immediately was drawn to her by her beauty. “Siddhartha saw how beautiful she was, and his heart laughed” (Hesse 42). It was from that moment on that Siddhartha knew he wanted to pursue Kamala and learn the ways of which she lived. In this particular relationship, Siddhartha is shown as being the lover who is attempting to pursue something he believes is beautiful, in this case Kamala. The roles that these characters possess demonstrate perfectly the relationship expressed by Phaedrus. These roles are significant throughout the entire reading of Siddhartha because it shows the chase and commitment to achieving something he truly wants. In the eyes of Siddhartha, Kamala is a beautiful thing in which he wants to follow because that is what he believes is worth it.

Posted by: Chelsea Dickenson at February 10, 2014 02:26 AM

Shamera Bryant
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA01
10 February 2014
Question #7:
How is the topic of Agathon’s speech different from the previous speakers? In what direction does he turn the previous theses in his antithesis? Explain, providing passages from the actual text to support your answer (first, state which translation you are using).
Answer:
Benjamin Jowett translation was used.
Agathon’s speech is different from the previous speakers because his speech spoke about what benefits came from love. He believed that the nature of love was the most beautiful and purest love. “Of this alone, even God is deprived, the power of making things that are past never to have been” (Plato). In this I take it that he is saying that even God is lacking in his power of love and this is where the direction changes.

Posted by: Shamera Bryant at February 10, 2014 03:54 AM

Daniella Zacarias
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
Love and Desire in Literature (CA01)
7.2.2014
TEST Question #25
25:
In his own homage to Eros, Agathon mischievously brags about his own attributes (youth, looks, etc.) because, by all accounts of those present, he is a very attractive individual. Agathon’s apparent narcissism is evident.
Work with this idea of self-love in idea in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. Are there any characters guilty of narcissism in the narrative?
You must first begin by defining the term and expressing it in your own words/voice (use quoted passage from the text – just as you’ve done in the homework assignments- to support your claim).
Then, show how the conditions of your definition apply to the characters from Siddhartha that you have chosen. If narcissism exists, how/ why is it significant to the overall story?

ANSWER:
In my opinion, narcissism is the love for one’s self, which can be either the love for one’s physical appearance or even one’s intelligence. In Plato’s Symposium, Agathon praises youth, which is something he has which his peers do not. “First, he is the youngest of Gods, [. . .] and he by himself supplies a great proof for this assertion, for with headlong flight he avoids old age [. . .] It is precisely old age that Eros naturally detests; he does not even come within distance of it.”(Bernardete 24).
In Hesse’s Siddhartha, the only evident sign of narcissism is in the chapter Amongst the People. In this chapter, Siddhartha has assimilated with the common people; he has lost faith in his ability to learn the truth, or to reach the enlightenment he seeks. He transforms drastically, he searches for material objects, as the common person would, and fixes his appearance in order to fit in.
“I am still a Samana, he thought, still an ascetic and a beggar. I cannot remain one; I cannot enter the grove like this.”(Hesse 43). At this point of the story, Siddhartha is beginning to understand that appearances matter to people like Kamala and Kamaswami. “During the night he slept among the boats on the river, and early in the morning, before the first customers arrived in the shop, he had his beard shaved off by the barber’s assistant. He also had his hair combed and rubbed with fine oil. Then he went to bathe in the river.”(Hesse 43).
We can see that Siddhartha does not necessarily love his own appearance as much as he loves his knowledge. Siddhartha knows that he is wiser than the common person is, and even feels superior to them. I believe that true narcissism does not exist; people cannot love themselves fully, there is always one thing about the self that bothers us.

Posted by: Daniella Zacarias at February 10, 2014 11:29 AM

Alison Schucht
Dr. Burgsbee L. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA01
10 February 2014

QUESTION #12:
First, revisit the concept of the profane/common love and the sacred/heavenly love in Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, as first proposed by Pausanias in Plato’s Symposium. Next, define the terms by expressing them in your own words/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the conditions for one of these types of love
apply to the relationship between the characters Govinda and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text—just as you’ve done in the homework assignments—to support
your claim). Would the relationship be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view?, i.e., would one character see the love as vulgar/common and the
other as chaste/heavenly? If so, why is this significant to the overall story?

ANSWER:
According to Pausanias in “Symposium,” there are two distinctions between Love. One of them is Common Love, and the other is Heavenly Love. “The Love who is the offspring of the common Aphrodite is essentially common, and has no discrimination, being such as the meaner sort of mean feel, and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul-the most foolish beings are the objects of this love which desires only to gain an end…” (Jowett 7). Here, Pausanias describes Common Love as a materialistic and bodily sort of Love, especially between a man and a woman. “But the offspring of the heavenly Aphrodite is derived from a mother in whose birth the female has not part, -she is from the male only…Those who are inspired by this love turn to the male, and delight in him who is the more valiant and intelligent nature…” (Jowett 7). Pausanias describes Heavenly Love as Love with the soul and spirit, and that it is immaterial-like and usually happens between two men. In Herman Hesse’s “Siddhartha,” the protagonist Siddhartha and his best friend Govinda share a friendship very similar to one of these two distinctions of Love. Because of Govinda’s loyalty and admiration toward Siddhartha, it is clear that the two share a Heavenly Love-like relationship.

“Govinda, his friend, the Brahmin’s son, loved him more than anyone else. He loved Siddhartha’s eyes and clear voice. He loved the way he walked, his complete grace of movement; he loved everything that Siddhartha did and said…” (Hesse 2). Govinda clearly loves Siddhartha in a Heavenly way as described by Pausanias because this sort of Love is immaterial, and it is shared between to men. Govinda is willing to do anything for Siddhartha, which is the exact definition of what Pausanias describes as Heavenly Love. If Siddhartha was to love Govinda in the way that Govinda loves Siddhartha, the whole entire story would change. If Govinda still decided to follow Gotama, I believe, because of the Heavenly Love that Siddhartha would have for Govinda that Siddhartha would not take his own path for Enlightenment, but he would follow Govinda. If the roles of Love reverse between the two, the plot of the story, without a doubt, would be entirely different

Posted by: Alison Schucht at February 10, 2014 05:29 PM

Kyle McLeish
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210 CA01 Love and Desire
11 February 2014

27. In Hesse’s Siddhartha, we understand that Kamala’s role for Siddhartha is as an Erotic teacher (Socrates’s erotic teacher was Diotima). However, in the novel, Siddhartha never remained with one teacher for very long; that is to say, Siddhartha changed teachers frequently. In the sense of love’s meaning as expressed by the end of Socrates’s speech in Plato’s Symposium, does Siddhartha encounter any other teachers of love (they do not even have to be human)? If so, who is that character or concept that continues to teach Siddhartha about love? If that same character/concept were to, hypothetically, attend Plato’s symposium, which of the symposium’s speakers might it empathize with the most? In other words, which speaker of the symposium best parallels/correlates with Siddhartha’s lover teacher (remember, not Kamala), and why? Use quoted passages from the text just as you’ve done in the homework assignments to support your claim.

Answer:

The character that continues to teach Siddhartha about love is Vasudeva and the river. Vasudeva taught Siddhartha that you must listen to all things and take everything in from each encounter you have with a person (Hesse 74). By taking in each word into your mind, you build a connection with the person. Vasudeva states that when listening on the river, the river will talk to you (Hesse 74). This means that when you are on the river, you can find yourself in deep thought and reflection. The river helps guide your thoughts and teaches you how you should act and behave in certain circumstances. Vasudeva tells Siddhartha that the river is sacred, and only a select few people have been able to listen to the river and learn from the river’s teachings. Vasudeva tells Siddhartha to take this unique opportunity and learn from the river (Hesse 75). The river taught Siddhartha that he must listen, to pay close attention with a quiet heart, waiting with an opened soul, without passion, a wish, without judgment, and an opinion (Hesse 76). These lessons from the river taught Siddhartha how to love.

If the river were to attend Plato’s symposium, the river would most likely be related to the character Phaedrus in Plato’s symposium (Plato 238). During the symposium, Phaedrus was a handsome young man that spoke about love. Phaedrus is also an admirer of Socrates who thought each speaker should talk about praise in love (Plato 239). This praise is similar to the river because the river loves everyone and listens to what each person has to say. Like the river, love can teach you a great amount of information about many different circumstances. Love can guide you in certain directions similar to the river. Love can also make you feel at peace. Being on the river can also make you feel at peace. The river and love like Phaedrus talk’s about in the symposium are most likely to be related and could be used in each story due to these reasons.


Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Charleston: Simon & Brown, 2012. Print.
Plato. Symposium. US Archive. 11 February 2014.

Posted by: Kyle McLeish at February 11, 2014 03:28 PM

Marie Ryan
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA01
11 February 2014

Question: First revisit the concept of love as a biochemical "balance," idea in Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, as first proposed by Eryximachus in Plato's Symposium. Connect it to the following concept: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. Next, articulate the particulars of Eryximachus's theory and then express them in your own words/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the ideas of balance and peace of mind apply to the love felt by both the characters Kamala and Siddhartha in their relationship with (use quoted passages from the text- just as you've done in the homework assignments- to support your claim). Are each of these characters really "balanced"? Do both of these characters truly have "peace of mind"? If so, shy is this significant to the overall story? If not, what might this suggest about Eryximachus's theory?

In “Plato’s Symposium” Eryximachus thinks that it is the physician’s job to sort out the good love from the bad love. To support this the text reads, “… and he who knows how to eradicate how to implant love, whichever is required and can reconcile the most hostile elements in the constitution and make them loving friends is a good practitioner” (Plato 11). He, using a music analogy, explains good love as a balance between the good and the bad elements. The text to support this is, “… harmony is composed of differing notes of higher or lower pitch which disagreed once, but are now reconciled by the art of music” (Plato 11).
This statement by Eryximachus suggests the balance and peace of mind can be attained by love. This can be applied to the love of Kamala and Siddhartha. The passage from the text that supports this is, “You are Kamala, nothing else, and inside of you, there is peace and refuge, to which you can go at every hour of the day and be at home at yourself, as I can also do” (Hesse 53). This statement suggests that Siddhartha and Kamala have the relationship they do because both of them are at inner peace.
Furthermore, in regards to the access to the peace of mind love seems to brings, it is easy to see how one would think that love is what brings about that peace of mind. However, true balance or peace of mind is not brought out by love. In reality that access existed before the love and will exist after. Furthermore, no one is every really at peace with himself/herself because there is always something that person knows he/she can do better. Therefore, Siddhartha and Kamal never reach the balance or peace of mind that may have been perceived from the book. Consequently, there is a small flaw in Eryximachus’s theory because the harmony achieved in music does not exist in humans simply because of the fact that a piece of music can be perfected, but a human cannot.


Work sited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. Charleston: Simon & Brown, 2012. Print
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. The Internet Classics Archive. Web. 28 January 2014

Posted by: Marie Ryan at February 11, 2014 09:45 PM

Kara K. Marino
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
Love and Desire in Literature ENG-210cl CA01
12 February 2014

QUESTION #14
First, revisit the concept of love as a biochemical "balance", idea in Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, as first proposed by Eryximachus in Plato's Symposium. Connect it to the following concept: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields. Next, articulate the particulars of Eryximachus's theory and then express them in your own words/voice. Then show how the ideas of balance and peace of mind apply to the love felt by both the characters Govinda and Siddhartha in their relationship. Are each of these characters really "balanced"? Do both of these characters truly have "peace of mind"? If so, why is this significant to the overall story? If not, what might this suggest about Eryximachus's theory?

ANSWER:
In Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, the concept of love as a biochemical balance, first described by Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium, encompasses a full body experience. Eryximachus stated, “Love is not merely an affection of the soul of man towards the fair, or towards anything, but is to be found in the bodies of all animals...” (Plato 10). This connects to the concept of when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields because with love their body is whole. People without love are injured, not complete, and unhealthy. People who experience love find a balance between body and soul; they find that they are whole. Love is a driving force for all aspects of life including music, athletics, and the seasons.
This idea of balance and peace of mind does apply to the love felt by both characters Govinda and Siddhartha in their relationship. Both Siddhartha and Govinda start off the story searching for something. Neither one of them know it yet but that something is love. Govinda loves Siddhartha, but ends up wandering around traveling aimlessly searching for that love to be reciprocated. The love is never reciprocated, and Govinda spends the rest of his life lost, until he comes back to Siddhartha at the end of the story, does he truly feel balanced and whole. “He bent down closely to him and touched his forehead with his lips, something miraculous happened to him” (Hesse 104). Siddhartha spends his journey searching for enlightenment. An enlightenment that is actually love he just does not know it yet. The only thing Siddhartha knows is that he is incomplete. Even when he meets Kamala and decides to learn about love from her, he still is incomplete and he experiences sansara. He finally experiences philos for the ferryman and is complete even after he leaves, “With deep joy, with deep solemnity he watched him leave” (Hesse 96). Neither one of the characters are truly balanced until the end of the story when they both are made whole and truly experience peace of mind.

Posted by: Kara Marino at February 12, 2014 01:53 AM

Shamera Bryant
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA01
12 February 2014
Question #8:
Socrates explains how Diotima showed him the journey an individual takes in his or her
own realization of what love is. First, she says, the lover discovers the beauty of one body,
then moves on to an appreciation for the beauty of all bodies, then souls, then
laws/customs, and, ultimately, gets to an attraction of one person’s wisdom and finally, an
appreciation of all wisdom, that which is truly beautiful. Does this pattern exist for any
character in Hesse’s Siddhartha? Does one character’s understanding of love change
throughout the course of the story? If so, how? How is the evolution of the character’s love
resemble or differ from Diotima’s model? Use quoted passages from the text—just as you’ve
done in the homework assignments—to support your claim.
Answer:
A very similar pattern happens to Siddhartha himself. He went through a journey as well finding out what the meaning of love was. His understanding of love changes when he sees Kamala. When he meets kamala he realizes that he cannot love like ordinary people.
These thoughts did not surface until Siddhartha meets Kamala. Before Siddhartha just wanted to have peace, peace from the word he had no joy. In the text, it say “but he, Siddhartha, was not a source of joy for himself, he found no delight in himself” (Hesse 6).
Opening the second part of the book Hesse says “Siddhartha learned something new on every step of his path, for the world as transformed, and his heart as enchanted” (Hesse 35). This is the starting point of a change for Siddhartha’s character.
When he finally meets Kamala he sees new beauty that he has never seen. He wants kamala to teach him what she knows about love and sex as well as other things. These were things that before he had no interest previously. In this experience, he grows a great deal of love for Kamala but starts to gain hate within himself. This is part of his journey conflict with his self-love and love for someone else. He later discovers that he has a son and loves him unconditionally.
The evolution compared to Diotima’s model of love is fairly different. Although Siddhartha goes through a love journey figuring out who he is and what love is all about, His journey is different from Diotima’s who believes that love begins with the body. Thinking deep enough into it Siddhartha had to love himself to some extinct to be able to love his son. Diotima just took the concept of love into deeper aspect incorporating beauty and wisdom.

Posted by: Shamera Bryant at February 12, 2014 03:10 AM

Devon Bell
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210 Love and Desire in Literature CA01
11 February 2014
Question #24
First, revisit the concept of love as a biochemical “balance,” idea In Hermann Hesse’s
Siddhartha, as first proposed by Eryximachus in Plato’s Symposium. Connect it to the
following concept: when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields.
Next, articulate the particulars of Eryximachus’s theory and then express them in your own
words/voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the
ideas of balance and peace of mind apply to the love felt by both the characters Kamala and
Siddhartha in their relationship (use quoted passages from the text—just as you’ve done in
the homework assignments—to support your claim). Are each of these characters really
“balanced”? Do both of these characters truly have “peace of mind”? If so, why is this
significant to the overall story? If not, what might this suggest about Eryximachus’s theory?
Answer:
The statement, when one has love, that person has access to the peace of mind it yields, relates to Eryximachus’s love being a biochemical balance in a sense that. One finds in love what is good. When an individual or creature has love for something, it is recognized as a settling point for contentment. In this sense, happiness may help guide the way to peace of mind. Eryximachus believed that love was a concept not just people understood, but everything on Earth. He develops this notion from his art in medicine “whence I learn how great and wonderful and universal is the deity of love, whose empire extends over all things, divine as well as human.” (Plato line 454-461). Pleasure tends to come along when an individual lets what interest them play a rather large aspect of their life.
The particulars on Eryximachus’s theory on love are that, an individual should be able to seek out what is simply satisfying and negatively hectic in love. That person then should be able to process the positive to the negative and negative to positive. One should understand how to turn each to the other. Understanding how to grasp the feeling of love and enabling oneself to share it with someone is just as valuable as knowing how to eliminate it from someone “the best physician is he who is able to separate fair love from foul.” (Eryximachus) (Plato line 468-475). This theory will lead one on a path to peace of mind, so long as it is fully understood.
In Siddhartha, the relationship between Siddhartha and Kamala does, in fact, represent peace of mind. The two of them knew one another extremely well; they spent much time with each other. When Siddhartha left without any ones knowledge, Kamala did not try to find him. She knew that this day would come eventually; she simply lacked sight of when it would come. She was not surprised when she learned that Siddhartha had disappeared (Hesse 85). The two characters do have peace of mind and are both balanced. They indeed lived by Eryximachus’s theory to the fullest. The love the two shared was eliminated; they knew how to let it go. This is important in a way that the story is about Siddhartha finding himself. This was nothing more than a necessary step he had to settle.


Works Cited
Hesse, Hermann. Siddhartha. New york: New Directions Publishing Corporation, 1951.
Plato. "The Symposium." Jowett, Benjamin. The Symposium. South Australia: eBooks@Adelaide, 2012.

Posted by: Devon Bell at February 12, 2014 06:53 AM

Emma De Rhodo
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210CL CA01 Love & Desire in Literature
12 February 2014

QUESTION #20: First, revisit the concept of the Lover and the Beloved in Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha, as first proposed by Phaedrus in Plato’s Symposium. Next, define the terms by expressing them in your own words/ voice (use passages from the text to support your definitions). Then show how the conditions of each definition apply to the characters Kamala and Siddhartha (use quoted passages from the text—just as you’ve done in the homework assignments—to support your claim). Which of the two characters plays which role (primarily) in the relationship? Why is this significant to the overall story?

ANSWER:
In the story Siddhartha, written by Herman Hesse, two of the main characters are obviously in love: Siddhartha and Kamala. However, in the relationship each one seems to play a different part in the relationship. In Plato’s work entitled Symposium, a woman who is named Diotima speaks about lovers and those who are beloved (Plato 22). There are various reasons why the character Siddhartha would be the lover in the relationship and why Kamala would be the beloved. Siddhartha’s desire for Kamala, Kamala’s acceptance of this desire, and Siddhartha’s level of importance of wisdom are reasons why Siddhartha would be the lover and Kamala the beloved.
Before Siddhartha even knew too much about Kamala, he was drawn to the woman, and he says to her, “You are the first woman to whom Siddhartha has spoken other than with downcast eyes,” showing that there is some special characteristics of Kamala which Siddhartha has already noticed before their first meeting (Hesse 45). Also, Kamala mentions, “she had drawn him so intimately close to her heart, that once more felt so entirely possessed and penetrated by him” (Hesse 68). Even if she did not love him very much at the first instance of talking with him, one can see that she is clearly in love with him after she has said this (Hesse 46). As the beloved, she accepted the love. Furthermore, as Diotima says in Symposium, “Love is also a philosopher: lover of wisdom,” and Siddhartha, since he even speaks critically about the Buddha’s teachings to the Buddha himself, must be a philosopher (Hesse 28). When Siddhartha leaves the place where the Buddha is, he realizes he has not learned exactly what he had wanted to, so he has not gained the wisdom he desires (Hesse 31). These points show how Siddhartha and Kamala play their certain roles in the relationship.
These points are important to the story because they show what the story is centered around. The experiences that Kamala and Siddhartha have, and the information they learn from one another, seen throughout the story, is very interesting.

Works Cited
Hesse, Herman. Siddhartha. Trans. Rika Lesser. New York: Barnes and Noble Classics, 2007. Print.
Plato. Symposium. Trans. Benjamin Jowett. The Internet Classics Archive. Web. 5 Feb. 2014.

Posted by: Emma De Rhodo at February 12, 2014 08:26 AM

Brianne M. Waller
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
Eng 210 Love and Desire
12 Feb 2014

Question #13: Go over the concept of profane/common love and sacred/heavenly love in your own words, and then show how the conditions for one of these types of love apply to the relationship between Kamala and Siddhartha. Would the relationship would be labeled differently if examined from the opposite characters point of view?

Answer: Profane and common love are just as they sound. There is materialism, the body, and lust. Whereas heavenly and sacred love touches on a much deeper and idealistic level. It is harder to reach this level of love because something other than your physical body is needed to achieve it. Kamala and Siddhartha’s relationship begins as common love, but transforms into heavenly love as they spend more time together. Kamala starts off teaching Siddhartha on common love, but as they become lovers, and their minds intertwine they become much more…on Kamala’s point of view. Siddhartha on the other feels common love. It is lustful and physical, though he is enlightened by Kamala’s teachings he only feels something more when on her death bed she explains her son is Siddhartha’s. This relationship in my eyes is in fact heavenly and sacred love, but Siddhartha fails to see it that way. They share everything, including a child, and sacred love has been reached because of that. Kamala tries to teach Siddhartha to find, “stillness and sanctuary” as she has found within herself. This makes Kamala’s love for Siddhartha much stronger.

Posted by: Brianne M. Waller at February 12, 2014 09:04 AM

Emily Finck
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014


Question #13:
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the relationship of “ALCESTIS AND ADMETUS.” Research who these two were and how they were connected. However, in your answer, explain them in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.


Answer:
Alcestis was the daughter of King Pelias. Pelias was king a small area in Thessaly known as Lolcos, his daughter being royalty was in need of a male suitor. This suitor was none other than Admetus, King of the whole of Thessaly.


The legend surrounding these two lovers starts with the interference of the Gods. Apollo was banished by Zeus to become a servant to a mortal for one year, for attacking the Cyclopes that create Zeus’s lightning bolts; because, Zeus killed one of Apollo’s sons. This particular son, Aesculapius, restore life to those close to death, thus alarming Hades, who went to Zeus and convinced him to kill Aesculapius (Bullfinch).


Apollo was then sent to serve Admetus and through his divine powers, helped Admetus win the hand of Alcestis. However, shortly after their courtship Admetus became ill and was close to death.


Apollo, being able to wield the same powers as his late son asked the Fates to spare Admetus. The Fates agreed to spare him on one condition; someone would have to take his place in death in order to keep the realm of life and death balanced (Bullfinch).


Everyone in Admetus’s palace refused to take his place in death when asked. Then, Alcestis stepped forth and with utter devotion, love, and selflessness offered to give her life so that Admetus would live.


Thus, the speech of Phaedrus from Plato’s Symposium comes into play. Phaedrus begins his speech by defining love as one of the oldest gods to have come into being and is the very reason humanity has compassion and selflessness. “That is why I say Love is one of the most ancient of the gods, the most honoured, and the most effective in enabling human beings to acquire courage and happiness, both in life and death” (Plato 12).


Phaedrus also goes on to say that love “breathes love” into lovers just as the gods “breathe life” into heroes (11). Phaedrus also gives the example of Alcestis’s wiliness to give up her life for Admetus, when no other in the palace would, not even his parents. Phaedrus feels that the ancient god of Love was the sole driving factor for her decision to take the place of her beloved in death. Love is the reason humanity has courage and the wherewithal to get up and fight for what is important to it, as well as, guides humans through anything as long as the feelings are strong and true.

Posted by: Emily Finck at September 14, 2014 11:19 AM

Shelby Rexroth
ENG 210CL CA02
September 14, 2014

QUESTION: 4) Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings you came across the concept of “DIALECTIC” Look up this word in as many places as necessary for you to “get” its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.

ANSWER: After doing my research of what the word “dialectic” means, it is defined to be discussing ideas in order to find an idea that both parties would agree on. During my research, I also found out that this word isn’t often used in the everyday English language and is only used for academic writing.

Posted by: Shelby Rexroth at September 14, 2014 05:23 PM

Allison Ward
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
15 September 2014

Question #11
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept of “metaphysic”. Look up this word in as many places as necessary for you to “get” its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previous assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.

Answer
In my own words, the concept of metaphysic is the understanding of one’s existence and the world that exist around one’s self. In Plato’s Symposium, this concept can be seen in the beginning of the story. On the first page, the people that are in this part of the story are introduced and the setting-“the House of Agathon”- is stated, so we know who the characters are, and the setting helps to see what the characters are surrounded by.

Posted by: Allison Ward at September 14, 2014 09:17 PM

Zailet Martinez
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL- Love and Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014
Question #7:
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept of “ANTITHESIS First look up the concept of “Hegel’s Dialectic.” Then, focus on what was meant by “thesis” in Hegelian terms (It will be connected to thesis, and synthesis) However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.
Answer:
Given the information I have found. Hegel’s Dialectic is a three stage process were you first have a thesis, then an antithesis, and finally a synthesis. A thesis, is the initial process or the problem that has to be resolved. After you have the problem (thesis) in place, you must come up with a solution to the problem or something to go against the problem at hand. This is the antithesis. Finally you must apply the solution to the problem: the synthesis. To put this in perspective, in the short story “A good man is hard to find” by Flannery O’Connor, a thesis that occurred was the meeting between the family and the Misfit and his partners. In this cases the antithesis from the Misfit perspective was the theory he had to kill the entire family. That would solve the problem of his location being known. The solution or the synthesis, resulted in the death of the family.

Posted by: Zailet Martinez at September 14, 2014 09:43 PM

Thomas Watson
Dr. B Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014

QUESTION #2:
Understanding the terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today's lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept of "DISCOURSE." Look up this wording as many places as necessary for you to "get" its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato's Symposium.

ANSWER:
From the definitions I've pulled up, discourse is a way of communicating/talking. Much like a debate, or formal kind of discussion, like a conference. In Plato's Symposium the word Symposium is related to discourse. Symposium is a gathering/conference and discourse is what's taking place within the Symposium. So throughout the symposium there's discourse taking place throughout the entire gathering.

Safe to say that discourse takes place with anything if it's communication because people communicate everyday. Much like our previous readings like "Roman Fever", "The Chrysantheums", and "A Good Man is Hard to Find". There's discourse throughout each of the short stories, with discussions between close friends, strangers, and generation lapses.

Posted by: Thomas Watson at September 15, 2014 12:25 PM

Matt Weller
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 201CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014

Question #10:
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept of “Binary.” Look up this word in as many places as necessary for you to “get” its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.

Answer:
The word binary means involving two things and/or when someone presents an idea or position, a different person presents a different idea or position on the subject. This concept is connected to Plato’s Symposium in many places. First when Apollodorus is talking to his friend in the Introductory Dialogue chapter. His friend does not know why he is called “the maniac,” but Apollodorus actually considers himself one. “I don’t know how you came to be called “the maniac,” but you certainly talk like one, always furious with everyone, including yourself-but not with Socrates!” (Nehamas &Woodruff 2). “It’s simply because I’m a maniac, and I’m raving!” (Nehamas &Woodruff 3). The two are talking about the same topic, but both have different views on it. This concept of binary is used everywhere in short stories we have previously read and now in Plato’s Symposium. The concept is used normally when two people are having a conversation and there is an argument or a disagreement on the subject.

Posted by: Matthew Weller at September 15, 2014 01:46 PM

Sharonda S Byrd
B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL - Love and Desire in Literature
14 September 2014
Symposium
Question: #14 Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across “Achilles and Patroclus”. Research who these two were and how they were connected. However, in your answer, explain them in your own words, making as many connections as you can to previously assigned readings, particularity Plato’s symposium.

Answer: When researching these two men I found out that they were best friends turned into to soldiers who also became lovers. Achilles and Patroclus grew up together and studied under the same teachers. The Trojan War was taking place but someone upset Achilles so he decided to sit this war out. Patroclus tried to persuade him to fight but Achilles refused however, Patroclus got to borrow Achilles armor so he would like him and scare the Trojans. The Trojans were afraid of Achilles because it is said that he was the greatest of the Greeks. Even though Patroclus had Achilles armor he still got killed but Achilles avenge his death by killing the man that killed Patroclus.Later on Achilles gets killed but him and Patroclus reunite again in the afterlife. This story connects to the stories in class because it’s about love. In Roman Fever Alida Slade and Grace Ansley fight about love and in Symposium Phaedrus speaks of love in a positive manner for example he calls love a mighty god and he says that love can conquer evil. Love conquering evil relates to Achilles and Patroclus because Achilles killed his enemy for revenge because they killed his lover.

Posted by: Sharonda Byrd at September 15, 2014 01:51 PM

Gabriela Navarro
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
15 Sep 2014

Question #3: Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. in today's lecture and/or in you're previously assigned readings, you cam across the concept of "EROS." Explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the preciously assigned readings, particularly, Plato's Symposium.

Answer:
The Greek god of love, Eros, also known as "Cupid" by the romans. Ethos is an Ancient Greek word that can be translated into English as "love" or "intimate love." Eros is occasionally used to express sexual love between two people who are physically attracted to each other. According to Plato, eros represents the interior force that drags man toward everything good, true and beautiful. The narrative presents many mutual attraction through masculinity and femininity, and how the approach of each other units as to be one flesh. The lust spoken about in the Sermon on the Mount is important to the meaning of Eros.

Posted by: Gabriela Navarro at September 15, 2014 02:15 PM

Ashjan Alrashid
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014

Question #1 :
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material, in today's lectur and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept “Symposium." look up the word in many places as necessary for you to "get" its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato's Symposium

Answer:

A “Symposium” is a kind of meeting or a gathering to discuss a specific topic. At that time in symposium for example it was “we shall make a speech in honor of Love.” (Plato 6) The symposium usually is highly exlousive. It also includes food and drinking. "I was myself one of those who were yesterday drowned in drink.”(Plato 5)

Posted by: ashjan alrashid at September 15, 2014 02:31 PM

Irma Sera
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love & Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014


Question #9:
Understanding terminology that you have never encountered is extremely important when learning new material. In today’s lecture and/or in your previously assigned readings, you came across the concept of “DICHOTOMY.” Look up this word in as many places as necessary for you to “get” its meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as many connections as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato’s Symposium.

Answer:
The word Dichotomy has different words describing its meaning in several different ways. According to the Literary Terms and Context webpage on line, Dichotomy is defined as “A division into two opposing parts, such as the dichotomy of the soul and body or the dichotomy of good and evil in humans.” This concept is used throughout the book on the different types of love there is. Pausanias shares his view and says that there are two types of love , “Heavenly or Commonly” (Plato pg. 12). Common love is love shared by a man and women; it does not discriminate. It is a love that is attracted to someone’s body rather than their mind. Then there is heavenly love, “… who has nothing of the female in her but only maleness; so this love is directed at boys (Plato pg. 13.) Men in these days are seen to have more sense and are smarter than women. They are attracted to young boys; once they are hitting puberty. It is clear that these are two different concepts that do not interfere with one another. One is a type of love that is focused on the body, and the other is the type of love that is focused on the mind. Which shows the division between the two, heavenly love and commonly love.

Posted by: irma sera at September 15, 2014 03:17 PM

Ahmed Almoailu
ENG-210CL
Dr.Hobbs
9/15/14

Question 16: Understanding terminology that you have never encounter is extremely important when learning new materials. In today's lecture and/or in your previous assigned readings, you came across Pausanias's concept of "The Lovers and The Beloveds" look up this phrase, if necessary, in as many places as necessary for you to get the meaning. However, in your answer, explain this concept in your own words, making as manny connection as you can to the previously assigned readings, particularly, Plato's Symposium.


Answer:
The Different between the Lovers and Beloved is that the lover is who provide and give the love (provider of love), and the beloved is the person who received the love (receiver).

Posted by: Ahmed Almoailu at September 15, 2014 03:23 PM

Brianna Broughton & Thomas Watson
Dr. Hobbs
ENG 210 CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
17 September 2014

Steinbeck’s – Heavenly/common


In Steinbeck’s The Chrysanthemum, there is heavenly love present. Elisa Allen and the tinker have a heavenly love for their crafts, which they express through deep conversation. She is very passionate about taking care of all of her plants especially her chrysanthemums. In addition, the tinker has a passion for metalworking and his hassle free lifestyle. Henry Allen does not love Elisa fully because he does not know what she wants although he thinks he is doing the best for her. Elisa does not love Henry entirely because she settled for him and because she did, she limits herself for the lifestyle they live.

Posted by: Brianna Broughton at September 17, 2014 03:14 PM

Martin Terrasi Matt Weller
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
17 September 2014

Lover/Beloved- O'Connor
"A Good Man is Hard To Find"
In the story the greatest show of love being given is the mother's reactions to her husband Bailey being taken into the wood by the misfits crew. She yells out "Where are they taking him?"(O'Connor 9). This shows she has a certain concern and love for the husbands well being. They also have children showing that they have some kind of physical attraction as well.The mother shows love in this situation leaving Bailey as the beloved. As shown when the misfit asks her ""Lady,"
he asked, "would you and that little girl like to step off yonder with Bobby Lee and Hiram and join
your husband?"
"Yes, thank you," the mother said faintly." (O'Connor 11).

Posted by: Martin Terrasi Matt Weller at September 17, 2014 03:17 PM


Anthony Colello 
Allison ward
Zailet Martinez


Stienbeck        Lover/beloved

Beloved- Elisa
Throughout the text we see examples of Elisa giving attempts towards possible affection, "She put on her newest underclothing and her nicest stockings and the dress which was the symbol of her prettiness. She worked carefully on her hair, pencilled her eyebrows and rouged her lips" (Stienbeck, 8). She wants her husbands love, and she desires his desire for her.

Lover- Henery 
Henery is a poor lover, and his focus is solely on the ranch and the job duties that will keep the ranch going, "You look strong enough to break a calf over your knee, happy enough to eat it like a watermelon" (9). Here Henery attempts a compliment. However, it fails to fulfill the emotional needs of Elisa.

Posted by: Anthony Colello, Zailet Martinez, Allison Ward at September 17, 2014 03:26 PM

Gabriela Navarro, Ahmed Almoailu, Shelby Rexroth
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature
17 Sep 2014

QUESTION:
"Roman Fever:" Heavenly

ANSWER:
Grace and Alida are old friends, yet both felt incredibly strong for one man, Delphin Slade. He has a relationship with Alida, and regardless that he had an affair with Grace, he continued to stay with Alida. Although, Delphin decided to pursue one friend, he at one point had feelings for both, even if for a brief moment. In the love triangle, neither relationship between any of the three are heavenly. Alida later becoming Delpin's wife and Grace being without a husband is still rewarded with his child.

Posted by: Gabriela Navarro, Ahmed Almoailu, Shelby Rexroth at September 17, 2014 06:25 PM

Emily Finck and Irma Sera
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
15 September 2014


Question:
Are there elements of Heavenly/Commonly love in Flannery O’Connor’s “A Good Man is Hard to Find?” Explain why or why not.


Answer:
Heavenly love is a complete love of the body and soul; whereas, Common love is described as an incomplete love of just the body. In O’Connor’s “A Good Man is Hard to Find” Heavenly love is not present throughout the whole of the story. On the other hand, there is an aspect of Common love in the sense of the husband and wife and the family, but it is ironic, in this same aspect because the family has an emotional and social disconnect. An example of this disconnect would be when Misfit’s men took the family members away to shoot them, and they bring the Misfit the husbands shirt that the grandmother did not recognize. “The shirt came flying at him and landed on his shoulder and he put it on. The grandmother couldn’t name what the shirt reminded her of” (O’Connor 11).

Posted by: Emily Finck at September 18, 2014 08:17 PM

Zailet Martinez
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL- Love and Desire in Literature CA02
24 September 2014

Question 3:
Once the girl has been tattooed, in Jun’ichiro Tanizaki’s “Shisei” (1910), how will this affect her role as a geisha, as she was originally planned to become?

Answer:
We all know the girl wants to be geisha before she is introduced to the person she is after the tattoo. The tattoo helps the girl realize how strong and beautiful she is. When Seikichi introduced the girl to the pictures he had collected that inspired him to find a girl as beautiful as her, she was afraid and embarrassed. The princess in the picture resembles the girl, and she admittedly said that she wants to be the woman in the painting that had everyone at her feet, and all the men were her victim. Seikichi chooses her because he knows her desire to be like the women in the painting; he chooses her because she is just like him, someone who enjoys inflicting pain on men. In the end she say, “‘all my old fears have been swept away—and now you are my first victim!’”(Tanizaki, 8) The girl was timid when she had first arrived, but after the tattoo, she becomes confident and beautiful. The tattoo will give the girl more confident in being a geisha, and increases her ego. She has the power to fulfill her desires to inflict pain on men, and being a geisha will be her disguise.

Posted by: Zailet Martinez at September 23, 2014 09:26 PM

Ashjan Alrashid, Antonella Aviles, Rebecca Messano
Dr. B. Lee Hobbs
ENG 210CL Love and Desire in Literature CA02
23 September 2014


Wharton (lover/beloved) :

Even though Mrs. Slade thought of her self as Mr. Slade “equal in social gifts, as contributing her full share to the making of the exceptional couple they were” (Wharton 3), later Mrs. Slade figures out that after his death, her life really changed. “it was a big drop from being the wife of Delphin Slade to being his widow”. (3) She found out that she wasn’t really an equal relationship with him, but in fact she was the one receiving all the fame, wealth, and prestige from being his wife.

Posted by: ashjan alrashid at September 24, 2014 01:31 AM

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*NOTE* The deadline for this particular assignment has now passed. Any comments listed below are *ONLY* for the reposting of comments that I specifically asked to be revised or are ones from non-student posters. Any 'student' posts below that missed the assignment deadline will not get credit for the assignment.


~ Dr. Hobbs

Posted by: Dr. B. Lee Hobbs at September 30, 2014 01:46 PM

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